House of Horrors Part 2 | The Crimes of Fred & Rosemary West

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,700 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real 2 00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:21,840 victims whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? 3 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,960 I use my experiences in law enforcement, corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal 4 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:33,320 justice educator dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are 5 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:51,000 unspeakable. 6 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,120 Warning, unspeakable is intended for mature audiences. 7 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,880 If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. 8 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Listing discretion is advised. 9 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,160 Hey y'all, KJ here back for another episode of Unspeakable, what's going on? 10 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:03,680 It's Thanksgiving Week! 11 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,680 Thank you, Jesus! 12 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,520 I'm actually off all week from teaching, which is really fun for me, but that actually 13 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,280 means now I've got more time to write podcasts. 14 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,200 So I'm rolling out a whole bunch of new podcasts, reall, I've got some bonus episodes in 15 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,040 the mix, and you spoke, and I listened, and I have a local case that I'm working on right 16 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,280 now too, that's a good one, that y'all are going to be really, really interested in. 17 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,280 That said, my dog also had puppies. 18 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,720 Have y'all been looking at Facebook? 19 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,680 I'm a post-amon Patreon too, because they are so cute. 20 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,520 I got five precious brand new French Bulldog puppies, and they're so cute. 21 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,560 You need to go look if you haven't, and just imagine the puppy breath, because they're 22 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:40,560 precious. 23 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,320 I've got a shout out too, all the way from Brian, Texas. 24 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:45,920 I need to say hello to Miss Jillian Witten. 25 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:46,920 Hey, go! 26 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:48,680 How's it going in Texas? 27 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,960 I bet it's hot. 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,760 I don't know, maybe not, but it's been hot down here. 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,200 We've had maybe one or two days of cool, but usually we get y'all's weather after y'all 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,800 get it, but I hope things are going good in Texas. 31 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,960 I hope that you're having the best week ever, and I hope that y'all enjoy the rest of this 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,040 episode, because I want a pat on the back. 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,800 I'm patting my own damn self on the back, because this episode was a mother to write, and 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,160 I don't know if you realize it, but I put a whole lot of research and effort into these 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,880 cases, and this one, I almost threw my hands up, because this dude was cute. 36 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,880 He was killing everybody he came in contact with. 37 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,840 I mean, I'm sprozed and by the left on the planet after I finished writing this one, but let's 38 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,040 jump back into it. 39 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:32,360 We can do a quick recap for the people who have forgotten what happened last episode, but 40 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,800 there's a whole bunch of people that came in contact with Rosemary and Fred West, and they 41 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,640 ended up missing dead or raped. 42 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:39,640 Okay? 43 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,160 There was nobody that ended up with a good outcome after meeting these people. 44 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,080 We had nanny number one, which was Anne McFall, 18 years old, up and missing, and she 45 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,080 was pregnant. 46 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:54,280 Fred's daughter, Charmaine, who is eight years old, she went missing while Fred was incarcerated. 47 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,480 Then Fred's first wife, Catherine Costello, she went missing, was never reported missing 48 00:02:58,480 --> 00:02:59,480 to the police. 49 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,480 Fred had also killed young Henry Feney, who was a little bitty fella, and ran him over 50 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,920 with ice cream truck. 51 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,120 The nanny number two was Caroline Owens. 52 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,800 She did survive that brutal rape and kidnapping. 53 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:16,480 She escaped, but then as fate would have it, I guess, they got no jail time for what they 54 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,320 did to her, convinced the courts that she was a willing participant in this and just paid 55 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,520 a small fine. 56 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:27,400 And then Shirley Robinson, who was 18 years old, also pregnant by Fred, was reported missing 57 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,400 to police. 58 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:34,440 Then Fred's sister was also molested and raped and impregnated by Fred as well, but yet this 59 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,200 fella is still walking freely amongst everybody else. 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,040 This is an un-comfortable number of people who have had their lives affected or even ended 61 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,040 by these two. 62 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,680 And we aren't even close to being done yet. 63 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,640 This one is out of the box. 64 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,400 Hopefully, I've appropriately established the fact that Fred is not only dangerous, but he's 65 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,400 an accomplished predator. 66 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,960 And I don't know that that's even a good thing to say, an accomplished predator, but this 67 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,280 dude's bad news. 68 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,400 And then he marries the heifer of the century, who's a horrible person as well, and they 69 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,200 are just like, you know, gas and fire. 70 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,880 I mean, it's just a terrible combination. 71 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:17,240 Now, while not everyone who came in contact with Fred and Rose was killed, there was a whole 72 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,640 lot going on with how he treated people. 73 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,680 And what's even more sick is his penchant for young girls to be his sexual muses. 74 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,560 Fred was doing things behind closed doors that the average person would find to be absolutely 75 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,560 abhorrent. 76 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,040 I mean, it's disgusting. 77 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,680 And while it's totally legal, y'all, to get your freak on and do your thing with other 78 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,840 consenting adults, the fact was that he was committing acts of bond. 79 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:45,000 And violence sex acts with underage girls. 80 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,120 His wife was helping, and it's well documented. 81 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,360 Not only did he enjoy depraved sex acts with minors, he actually then converted his 82 00:04:54,360 --> 00:05:00,920 homes seller into a torture chamber to accomplish his fantasies without detection. 83 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:06,400 And what's even more concerning is the fact that his wife, who was very aware of what 84 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,120 was going on, participated in it in her own home. 85 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:15,120 Yeah, and doesn't seem to find any issue with it whatsoever. 86 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,640 In fact, I think that she was totally intrigued by it because she continues to take part in 87 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,440 it with him and things continue to escalate. 88 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,840 Now let's talk about real quick what exactly I mean by a torture chamber. 89 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:28,680 Walk with me if you will. 90 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:35,920 Down a set of stairs into a cold, damp, seller. 91 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,520 And as you're looking around the room, you're going to notice it looks like everything 92 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,920 you would visualize in a horror movie. 93 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:48,000 The walls look patched together with putty and plaster. 94 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,240 But then there's some places where you can see the brick. 95 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,160 And then there's these strange drawings of like a cowboy or two. 96 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,280 And then this other little critter above them and it's like a child's drawing. 97 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:04,920 And I'm, look, I'm not sure of the date of the photo that I'm actually referring to. 98 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,240 And maybe these drawings were done after the fact. 99 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,240 I'm not sure. 100 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,320 It's still there and it's creepy. 101 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:18,160 And torture was going on down there. 102 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,360 Y'all, I mean, like literal torture of people was going on down there. 103 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:30,000 There's exposed beams above the overhead and these beams were used to hang his victims 104 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:36,680 from as they were being sexually abused and tortured by Fred and Rose West. 105 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:42,480 I read how they had drilled holes into the beams so that they could use contraptions to 106 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,920 hoist these people up as they abused them. 107 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,040 Basically in your mind, there should be a picture that's emerging of like a secret of 108 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,880 place where sadistic sexual abuse was taking place. 109 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,640 And no one can hear the screams or see the hot falling tears of these victims that would 110 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:09,640 go there and they would never see the light of day again, at least while they were breathing. 111 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:15,000 See, Fred was a laborer during the day and his job would afford him the opportunity to 112 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:22,400 create these contraptions that he could then use in his torture chamber at night. 113 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:29,920 His most prized contraption would be one made of metal and designed specifically to tie 114 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:36,480 a human body to where they couldn't get away, but they were still able to be manipulated 115 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:44,160 in a way that best suited Fred's sexual needs or wants. 116 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:50,160 And he would inflict acts of sexual depravity and pain on these victims. 117 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,320 He literally got off by watching suffering. 118 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,440 And then he's married to a woman who agrees with it. 119 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,320 What are the chances, man? 120 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:04,560 One of the first people to be used and abused in this sex chamber would be someone very 121 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,040 close to Fred. 122 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:13,600 Matter of fact, it would be his own daughter, Anna Marie. 123 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,320 And at first when you're looking at her, the most notable thing is how much Anna Marie looks 124 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,400 like Fred. 125 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:26,360 She has those piercing blue eyes and she's got this strong brow. 126 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,200 But other than that, they don't have many similarities at all. 127 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:36,960 They are nothing alike in terms of personality or heart, but she does have those eyes. 128 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,920 And I'm going to post pictures of this for you so you can see them. 129 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,360 And according to Anna Marie, her father was a compulsive liar. 130 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:52,120 Even once, listen to this, even once claiming to all of his friends that and his kids actually, 131 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:58,480 he claimed it to all of his kids that he had invented the television, which everybody knew 132 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,480 wasn't true. 133 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:08,440 But he was so convincing and so adamant and so just matter of fact when he was talking 134 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:14,120 about how he invented the television that all of his kids believed it. 135 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:15,600 And they were too adamant. 136 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,000 My dad invented the television. 137 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:24,120 Can you imagine how dumb everybody looks repeating this, these kids, when everybody knows that's 138 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,760 just simply not true, but he believed it and he liked to compulsively lie about anything 139 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:29,760 he could. 140 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,560 And if you're willing to buy his bill of goods, then I guess he's winning. 141 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:39,760 Do you realize a level of psychopathy you are dealing with when someone not only compulsively 142 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,520 lies, but they even believe their own lies. 143 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,080 And I know you know somebody like that. 144 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:45,360 We all do. 145 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:51,120 And then in return, they expect others to believe them even when these are just clearly outrageous 146 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,120 claims. 147 00:09:53,120 --> 00:10:00,360 Pathological liars, by the way, they lie incessantly to get their way, but they do it with 148 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,880 like little awareness that others might be picking up on the fact that what they're saying 149 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,400 is just outrageous. 150 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,360 And when it comes to pathological liars, it's often seen in people who have anti social 151 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,600 personality disorders and narcissistic personality disorders. 152 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,680 Well, you think have you been listening to Fred and Rose? 153 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:24,840 A pathological liar, y'all, they are goal oriented, whether it's to get their way in some 154 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,800 situation or even if they just want to be seen as more interesting than they really are. 155 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:34,120 It kind of made me think maybe he knows Romeo and Michelle at the right school reunion. 156 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,520 I mean, they invented posted notes. 157 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:36,520 Y'all remember that? 158 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,920 So Romeo and Michelle, they created the post the notes and Fred invented the TV. 159 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,280 We believe them right? 160 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,760 And these types of liars also have very little regard or respect for the rights of others 161 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:53,200 or the feelings of others, which aligns with exactly what's about to happen next. 162 00:10:53,200 --> 00:11:01,200 Because at eight years old, the very age that Rose killed Anne Marie's sister, Sermain, 163 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:07,560 Anne Marie was used to the lies that her dad would tell, but she did not know about her father's 164 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:12,920 sexual appetite until she became one of the torture chambers. 165 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:20,040 Post-occupants subjected to a horrifically brutal rape by her father while her stepmother held 166 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,600 her down. 167 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,800 Your brain has got to go somewhere where you're like, how in the world would a woman who has 168 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,880 raised a child? 169 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:39,760 How could you possibly, in any way, shape or form, find this acceptable or arousing or whatever 170 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:46,920 it was to watch a child be tortured, one that you were supposed to love and raise, you know, 171 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,040 and you just go along with it? 172 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,440 I read some stuff about how Rose was probably a victim herself, bullshit. 173 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,280 No she was not. 174 00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:03,080 No she was not because you, y'all, you would have to kill me before I would turn my baby 175 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,880 over any of my children. 176 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:05,880 I'm not kidding. 177 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,200 You'd have to put a bullet in my head. 178 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,440 There's no way. 179 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,560 No amount of fear would ever make me back away from my babies. 180 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,240 None. 181 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,160 I'd be better off dead anyway. 182 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,320 But she does horrific things with Fred to this child. 183 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,640 On that day that would change little Anne Marie's life forever, Rose and Fred told her, go 184 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,200 down to the basement, come see, we want to show you something. 185 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,600 And then all three of them walked down the steps that I mentioned earlier. 186 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,240 And when they got to the bottom, Anne Marie noticed that there was a bunch of like tools 187 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,800 on the ground. 188 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,840 And it gave her a really uneasy feeling and so she told her parents, I don't like it down 189 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:44,840 here. 190 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:45,840 I want to go back up. 191 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,200 This is kind of scary. 192 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:54,280 And that's when Fred turned to her, his demeanor change and he told her to shut up. 193 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,120 Right when they get down into the room, Rose Mary, like a freaking animal, would immediately 194 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,480 rip off all of the clothes of eight year old Anne Marie. 195 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,360 And she was forced to lie on the floor. 196 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,840 This cold damp wet nasty seller and she's naked. 197 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,120 Her mother, her stepmother has ripped her clothing off. 198 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:24,320 Can you imagine that this little girl must have been scared out of her ever loving mind? 199 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,720 And she then asked her dad, what are these tools for? 200 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,400 Like what are you doing? 201 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:34,440 And it scared her so much that she started screaming out for anyone who might could hear 202 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:35,440 her. 203 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:41,600 And in her own words, she said that that's when Rose Mary came up when she started screaming 204 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,880 and sat on her face. 205 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,160 Like sat on that child's face. 206 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,680 She made it incredibly hard to breathe and in that same instance, and this is tough y'all, 207 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:59,120 but it should be because this is the reality of what this child experienced. 208 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,240 As her stepmother sat on her face and was suffocating her, she says that she felt the 209 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:10,840 most horrible pain she had ever felt in her entire existence inside of her. 210 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:18,560 She was being penetrated vaginally by a tool of some sort, which is not explicitly stated. 211 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,800 And it was hurting her. 212 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,440 So she starts to panic because she can barely breathe. 213 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,000 She cannot even process what could be causing this horrific pain. 214 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,480 And that's when Rose Mary moves and immediately gags her. 215 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:40,320 She takes a piece of ripped sheet, convenient, right, that that was down there. 216 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,280 You know how this makes me think about guys who carry around rape kits, they'll call them 217 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,480 like, you know, in their trunk and the bad guys have what they need to do what they want. 218 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,760 This is like a fricking craft room for rape and sadism. 219 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:58,200 They have everything they need to put down, to do these horrible acts to people. 220 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,800 They had the ripped pieces of sheets prepared and it was put in her mouth and then tied 221 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:12,200 behind her, her back, you know, and then covered on top of that was a large piece of black 222 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,360 carpet tape across her face. 223 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,360 So the little girl is gagged, right? 224 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,640 Can't talk. 225 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,160 My hands are my mouth right now. 226 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,800 She can't breathe. 227 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,720 It's tied behind her back and then they take tape and put that over her face. 228 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,800 It makes me think a little caley Anthony, if you're familiar with that case in Florida, 229 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,480 whenever Dr. G, the medical examiner, you know, they were kind of talking about why, you 230 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,400 know, what was the cause of death and she said, I don't know, but I can tell you that 231 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,720 no live child needs to ever have tape over their mouth and nose and no dead child certainly 232 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,840 would have tape or put over their mouth or nose. 233 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,040 You know, she's basically suffocating and that's when Fred said something to her that 234 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,720 should make everyone sick to their stomach. 235 00:15:53,720 --> 00:16:00,040 He explained to his eight year old little girl that all fathers do this to their daughters 236 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:08,160 and it's done to make them quote a better person and eventually a good mother, unquote. 237 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,880 So she needed to stop complaining. 238 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:20,680 This is a form of manipulation and absolute control mechanism to make this little girl 239 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:26,640 believe that this is normal, this is acceptable and everything he's doing to her is for her 240 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,840 own good. 241 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:36,040 He tells her she should be thankful to them for what they're doing to her and thankful 242 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,640 that she has such good parents, you know, a little mind game here of if you complain 243 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,360 then you're a bad person. 244 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,800 If you go along with it, then you're a good person. 245 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:52,920 Just sick the the layers as you pull them away of what this child was experiencing. 246 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:58,040 And then Anne Marie says that she was tied to a metal contraption and was just thinking 247 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,680 to herself and remember y'all she's an eight year old little girl. 248 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,440 She thought to herself, please just let me die. 249 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:05,920 This hurts so much. 250 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,080 Please, I just want to die. 251 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,800 Make it end. 252 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:16,360 But then being a little girl only eight years old in her head, she says she started 253 00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:20,920 thinking, well, wait a minute, daddy told me that this is normal and this is what has 254 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,520 to be done. 255 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:27,160 And so I probably need to stop making such a big ordeal about this because it's normal, 256 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,720 right? 257 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:35,200 And as she's trying to think her way through it, she was then left tied up attached to 258 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:41,360 that contrappment and she heard the door to the cellar clothes behind her, which she also 259 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:50,520 noted was a soundproof door and there she just hung until her parents decided to return 260 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,600 a while later. 261 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,280 And so when they did return her stepmother rose, came down the stairs and immediately started 262 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,040 belittling her. 263 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:06,200 She says she sneered at me just talking, just talking bad to her and telling her how horrible 264 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,960 of a kid she was and how this should not have been so difficult. 265 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:16,000 And then rose walks up and she had these long fingernails and she starts just scratching 266 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,720 all over the little girl, scratching down her chest and all over her body. 267 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:26,240 And I'm not talking about just like scratches of like a little swipe at the kid. 268 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,880 She literally scratched her and was making her bleed. 269 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,720 So after a while of being belittled and beaten and scratched, they both would untie her 270 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,240 and they took her to the bathroom where they forced her to bathe and she said that this 271 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:49,840 was excruciating because she was so sore from the rape, she was bleeding or skin hurt and 272 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:59,440 then to make it even worse, she was forced to go to her dad and tell him thank you, thank 273 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:05,120 you for what you have done to me. 274 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:11,960 And to show the power of true mental abuse and manipulation, check this out after they 275 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:20,760 had done this to this little girl, she then was allowed to go to work with her daddy. 276 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,720 She got to go to work with her daddy because he wanted her to know how close they were 277 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,160 and he said we have our little secrets, don't we? 278 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,160 So you get to go to work with me and then he would give her some money while he was with 279 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,120 her at work and let her go to the store and buy herself a treat but it was their secret 280 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:42,240 because Enri could not tell Rose about this. 281 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,240 And then he would always tell her afterwards, oh I'm sorry about things, I'm sorry that you 282 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:53,560 don't understand or that it hurts you but don't ever forget that I love you, I love you. 283 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,760 So little Enri just kept thinking in her mind how lucky she was to have such good parents 284 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,160 that they would spend that special time with her and help her to grow. 285 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,840 The manipulation and y'all this goes on today and household, household all around us, 286 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,000 we just don't know it. 287 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,520 Even sicker is the fact that this would become a regular occurrence and eventually though 288 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,320 she would start being threatened with beatings if she told anyone of what was going on in 289 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,880 the household and so she's a kid. 290 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,720 People often ask me, you know why don't kids just tell or why don't abused women just leave 291 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,360 their abusers, why would you sit there and put up with that? 292 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:40,120 Well it's just not that simple y'all especially when you're a kid, what are you gonna do? 293 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:41,840 Where are you gonna go? 294 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,960 You're eight years old. 295 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:44,960 Where are you gonna go? 296 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:50,080 The two people you quote unquote are supposed to trust the most are the people, very people 297 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,880 who are doing it to you and she's so mixed up in her mind she doesn't understand because 298 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,400 of the mind games that are being played. 299 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,940 Something else that's really sad too is that whenever kids do speak up about any type of 300 00:21:01,940 --> 00:21:07,040 abuse that they're experiencing and I want everyone to listen to this. 301 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:14,720 Remarkably as a society we have not figured out yet that the people we tend to go to first 302 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:21,200 to discuss what a child may disclose to us may be the very ones that are inflicting the 303 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,680 pain upon them and the abuse, i.e. their parents. 304 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,120 And I need you to imagine you're the kid right you would disclose this and then it becomes 305 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,880 your worst nightmare to think that the people that are in control of you and the ones that 306 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:41,480 are hurting you would be tipped off by another adult that you told and you should have kept 307 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,240 your mouth shut. 308 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:49,560 So in order to avoid any of you know future abuse or worse situations kids just don't speak 309 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:56,480 up they don't say anything their kids they're scared and the very people that they're supposed 310 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,240 to be able to trust the most in the entire world are the ones that are hurting them. 311 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,280 Why would they go tell somebody else? 312 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,760 They can't even trust the very people in the home. 313 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:16,680 Rose Mary the stepmom not only helped her father sexually abuse her but she was also an 314 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:23,360 extremely short tempered woman and she would become so angry that Marie said that Rose would 315 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,640 actually throw off at the mouth when she got angry. 316 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,560 Those were her actual words talking about her stepmother and she added that it was like 317 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:39,520 the lights would be on but nobody was home because Rose went into a blind rage whenever 318 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,680 she was angry and she would grab whatever was near her and she would throw it at the kids 319 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,240 or beat the kids with it. 320 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,360 It didn't even matter what it was it was literally described as just blind rage that would come 321 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:55,000 out of this woman. 322 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:02,280 Let me ask you something would you be willing to go tell on someone who stabbed you? 323 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,840 When you feared for your life I think not. 324 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:13,520 Did you know that Rose actually stabbed and Marie one time in a fit of rage? 325 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,720 I know you've been listening to previous episodes if not go back and listen. 326 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,720 This is not something that's shocking to people who have been in the game and learn about 327 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,640 child abuse. 328 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,320 Stabbing someone sounds unconscionable until you listen to the story after story after story 329 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,440 where it's been ingrained in these kids you listen to what I say you do what I do and you 330 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,360 keep your mouth shut and then she's going to stab the little girl. 331 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,800 You think that little girl is going to go tell somebody if the woman's capable of stabbing 332 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:42,800 her? 333 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,360 No, negative. 334 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:51,120 Something else that adds into the equation is that Rose was not someone that freely gave 335 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:56,400 affection and it was very obvious to all of the children involved in this household that 336 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:03,760 they had to earn any affection that they got from her. 337 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,720 I didn't even plan to say this but I just I podcast off the cuff. 338 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,040 There's a song by Kelly Clarkson called Peace by Peace. 339 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:18,320 If you haven't heard it before, you know what, I'll post it and there's a line in that song 340 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,440 where it says that love from her dad didn't come easy and it had to be earned because other 341 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,760 than that she was pretty useless to him. 342 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,920 Right unless she was doing something for him which in her case was given money or whatever. 343 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,800 You know imagine you're living in a household where you know you have to earn the affection 344 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:36,800 of somebody. 345 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,200 It doesn't come freely and how sad that must feel. 346 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,400 Even scarier than that is if you did get the affection from the woman that you really craved 347 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,120 then you were scared even more because why is she being so nice to me? 348 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,800 What is going on? 349 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,760 You can't win in this household. 350 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:03,880 One example in fact is one that one time Rose asked Anne Marie to stay home because she 351 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,080 was worried about how she had upset Fred. 352 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,440 So Anne Marie was kind of freaked out that Rose was being so nice to her though it kind 353 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,840 of shocked her and they stayed home together and they kind of talked it through and Rose 354 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,560 was really worried about making dad mad. 355 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:24,720 But then when Fred got home Fred started yelling at Rose because remember they were in an 356 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,720 argument. 357 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,200 Anne Marie having spent the last hours of the day with her stepmother being so kind to her 358 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,920 she felt a bit defensive considering how nice Rose had been to her. 359 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,200 So Anne Marie kind of stands up for Rose the woman that was raping her beating her and 360 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,760 frothing at the mouth throwing things at her and had stabbed her. 361 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,240 Don't forget that part. 362 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:53,520 This child kind of stood up and said Dad you know ease up on her you know you're being 363 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,920 kind of mean and in that instant like that. 364 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:06,600 Fred changes his anger looks at his daughter and promptly kicked her in the face with steel 365 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,440 toe boots busting her mouth and teeth. 366 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,600 So how do you think Rose reacted right? 367 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:14,600 Oh my God. 368 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Oh my God. 369 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,040 No no no right jumps on the child tries to protect the child right. 370 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,040 Wrong. 371 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,000 I'm going to tell you what she did. 372 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:29,480 She laughed at Anne Marie and said well you got what you deserved didn't you. 373 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:36,920 As I assessed that situation it became very clear to me what was going on. 374 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:46,800 It seemed to me that this was a pre planned situation that Rose predicted what happened. 375 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:52,680 She knew how that child would react because that child was decent and Marie was a good 376 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:58,280 decent child and she did what she exactly what Rose expected her to do Rose kept her 377 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,920 home from school Rose was very nice to her had her do the buy-in of O'Reilly I'm nice I'm 378 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:11,000 just scared of your dad and then turned the anger away from Rose and on to the child. 379 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:17,340 Signed sealed delivered done and now Fred's mad at the kid and then both adults stood 380 00:27:17,340 --> 00:27:23,520 there laughing at that little girl's busted mouth bleeding out Rose got her way she 381 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,760 won. 382 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,160 Sick. 383 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,820 Now I want you to know this I actually had the audio of this situation being discussed 384 00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:41,920 in Anne Marie's own voice when she's older and I'm going to post that because I'm a 385 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:52,400 posted in my Patreon because I want you to hear the sadness the fear and this is so unfortunate 386 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:59,840 heartbreaking but also the shame in her voice while she's telling that story it's like it's 387 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:07,480 like she's feeling shame for what was done to her but you feel it you feel you can hear 388 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:14,240 it in this victims own voice of what she was going through and something else that was 389 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,240 also done in the West household is that the children were get what were called their 390 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:25,860 annual beatings their annual beatings can you even actually some of y'all can because 391 00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:29,500 you write to me and you tell me look I grew up in a household where things happen to 392 00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:34,680 me that are a lot like the podcasts that you do and I want you to know I read every single 393 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,600 message you send me because I don't doubt you for one second and I'm so thankful that 394 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,960 you made it out and that you're an adult now and that you're able to process this from 395 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:50,680 an adult's point of view because having to process this as a kid must be just unobtainable 396 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,000 do you ever look back at yourself as a kid and thank God you feel sorry for yourself as 397 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,800 that child because you misinterpreted as you misinterpreted a situation in your life 398 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,760 and then you look at it through the adult lens and you're like my God what in hell so these 399 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,680 annual beatings were described as when all the kids would be pulled into the room and they 400 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:16,480 would have their clothes ripped off and then they would all be beat with belt buckles and 401 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,360 then Rose would come in and she would take those long nails I mentioned before and she 402 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,000 would punch and scratch and kick all of the kids it sounds like a gang beat in you know 403 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,800 what I'm talking about and the boys in the household weren't excluded from these beatings either 404 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,400 I know I haven't gone into a lot of depth about all of the children because Rose did have 405 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,680 eight I think in total but all of them don't play a huge role in the story so far as 406 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,760 I can tell it and we haven't even gotten to a lot of the victims that are left but the 407 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,320 boys weren't excluded from the beatings either and one time one of the little boys his name 408 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,760 was Steven he was forced to stay home from school by Rose and then when Ann Marie returned 409 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:59,160 from school that afternoon she found that little boy in the bathroom tied to a toilet seat 410 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,640 like hands you know around the base of the toilet and he's tied to the toilet seat and 411 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,240 she said that when he looked up she did not even recognize who he was at first because 412 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:15,720 he was beaten so badly about the face and in all instances of abuse the children were told 413 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,720 that this was done for their own good and it had to be done so that they would learn 414 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:27,240 respect for other people Rose would even get in trouble one time with Fred because he would 415 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,040 say that if you're going to hit the children you have to make sure it doesn't leave a mark 416 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,080 but Fred is going to say if you're going to hit our kids don't leave a mark are you kidding 417 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:43,160 me? So something that you don't often find if you're going to research this case okay 418 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,960 and I know this because I've researched this case for two weeks and I've been like down 419 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,400 some freaking rabbit holes but when you're researching it you won't find the fact that Ann 420 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:57,880 Marie was just 13 years old when she was forced to do what she called entertain gentleman 421 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:04,640 that would come by the home and this lends itself to tell you just how skilled of an 422 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:12,240 abuser Rose was because she would take the young girl she would take Amory to a bar and 423 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,720 get her drunk she's 13 she would take her and get her drunk in bars and then she would 424 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,480 be induced basically into doing acts that were just unacceptable of a teenager especially 425 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:30,080 in the presence of her stepmother and wrote and Marie tells one time that Rose took the 426 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,800 two of them they went to a bar together and she says that we were having the best time 427 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:39,320 she was so kind to me and as we were drinking she said maybe we should be better friends 428 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:44,560 you know and do more things together because we just don't spend enough quality time together 429 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,880 and Amory was soaking this up and she and the alcohol right but she's soaking up this 430 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,760 attention and yeah maybe we should that would be great and so she starts again leaning 431 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,520 in to Rose as a mother figure even though they're in a bar and it's weird but she starts 432 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:06,720 leaning into her and then about that same time Fred shows up and as soon as Fred shows up 433 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,840 Rose turned on Anne Marie again it's kind of like the same thing over and over again and 434 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,840 so they go outside and Anne Marie can't even walk straight she's so drunk she's 13 and 435 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,600 she's not feeling good she can't walk Rose grabs her by the hair pulls her into this 436 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,520 van that the family had and then ties her up in the back of the van and then in the 437 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:34,800 presence of her father while her dad watched Rose sexually assaulted that little girl her 438 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:40,920 stepmother is engaging in sex with her stepdaughter while the father watches and don't think 439 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,440 that that's absolutely insanity insanity because I have an ex-friend who is in prison right 440 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:53,520 now where he should be for doing the same damn thing disgusting and I used to call him 441 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:59,600 friend and I had no idea behind closed doors he was a brick and pervert disgusting despicable 442 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:08,480 human being there's bullets out there I don't know why he hasn't eaten one yet I digress. 443 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,080 So like many of the young girls that come into Fred's life Anne Marie you ready for this 444 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:19,960 would also become pregnant by her own father but then it gets even worse because she becomes 445 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,240 pregnant by her dad they bring her to the hospital because it becomes really dangerous 446 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:30,200 because she has an ectopic pregnancy and it was extremely painful for her and something 447 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:36,040 that she says as I was listening to her talk and it's with just sadness she said and the 448 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:42,440 fact was that I was brought in by my mother and father I'm pregnant by my own dad and not 449 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,760 one person in that hospital looked at me like I was a human being or even questioned 450 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:55,640 why a young 15 year old girl was in the hospital pregnant like no one even questioned it 451 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:06,240 and then to show how valuable she was both Rose and Fred left this 15 year old little girl 452 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:14,400 in the hospital alone for an entire week they never came to visit her the only person who 453 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,520 showed up at the hospital to check on her was a friend from school who hadn't seen her and 454 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:25,560 heard she was in the hospital God bless that friend right and then when she was released 455 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:32,840 from the hospital Anne Marie was very sore she felt horrible and she was greeted when she 456 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:39,640 got home with a swift kick in the stomach from her stepmom upon return and while I don't 457 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:45,440 know this for a fact I have this searing feeling inside that Rose was jealous of her stepfather 458 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,240 because her father had impregnated her I know that's weird but I really feel like that's 459 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:56,520 what it was they then center to her room and then when her father returned home from work 460 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:04,280 that day he came upstairs pulled her out of the bed and made her go downstairs and apologize 461 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,080 for upsetting her stepmother she had to go tell her stepmother Rose I'm sorry for upsetting 462 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:17,040 you after you kicked me in the stomach so this was also about the same time that she was 463 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:22,280 forced into prostitution Rose actually would help the teenager put on her makeup and 464 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,720 pick out the outfits and it kind of made me think of you know Reba McIntyre you know I'm 465 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:30,880 a singtay you don't even play with me y'all I might have been born just playing white trash 466 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:39,720 but fancy was my name right because they forced her into prostitution and Rose wanted 467 00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:45,480 to ensure that Anne Marie knew that she was in charge of this cruelty and therefore 468 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:52,400 when these men would show up to the home to have sex with her stepdaughter her teen daughter 469 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:58,020 that she forced to go to bed with these strangers Rose made a point to go in the room and 470 00:35:58,020 --> 00:36:09,660 undress the little girl in front of the men before she left tell me that is not mind games now 471 00:36:09,660 --> 00:36:17,100 her father was also in an adjacent room and fully aware of what was going on you have to 472 00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:22,180 remember this Fred was a voyeur y'all do you know what voyors are a voyeur voyeurism when 473 00:36:22,180 --> 00:36:28,180 someone likes to watch someone else having sex for their own pleasure well guess what during 474 00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:36,620 their marriage Fred was asking Rose Mary and she was to go meet men and women for sex work 475 00:36:36,620 --> 00:36:41,500 and then bring them back to the family's home and in that home Rose had this room she called 476 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:44,940 like her best room or something like that and that's where they would go engage in all 477 00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:49,380 of this sex well guess what that was the same room that they would force their daughter 478 00:36:49,380 --> 00:36:58,940 to go in to and have sex with these strangers and Fred had designed peep holes in the walls 479 00:36:58,940 --> 00:37:05,380 so that he could watch his wife have sex with these strangers but he was also watching his 480 00:37:05,380 --> 00:37:12,620 daughter while she was being raped through those same peep holes and then when it was over 481 00:37:12,620 --> 00:37:16,180 the men would leave they'd pay their penny to the to the parents and then they wouldn't 482 00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:21,540 allow her to bathe they made her just sit there and I guess you know wallow in the filth 483 00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:25,300 that they forced her to participate in and this was kind of sad and I didn't put this 484 00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:33,620 in my notes but I'm going to bring it up Rose I mean I'm and Maria as an adult you know 485 00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:38,420 is reminiscing about what had happened and she looks up with tears in her eyes and she 486 00:37:38,420 --> 00:37:42,460 goes I guess I'm very ashamed of what I did and I thought girl you didn't do that you were 487 00:37:42,460 --> 00:37:49,140 forced to do that it's called derest and abuse and she says but I can live with what happened 488 00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:54,980 I just don't want my children to think less of me she was so upset that her kids might 489 00:37:54,980 --> 00:38:00,460 think less of her and I hope her kids wrapped their mama up in a hug and say we you're such 490 00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:06,100 an animal you're a beast for surviving what you your survivor hunt you're alive you did 491 00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:12,980 what you had to do and you made it out you're you won you know in in in some sick aspect I 492 00:38:12,980 --> 00:38:21,300 guess you won I wanted to know that but in another way to show how evil Rose was one time a 493 00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:27,060 suitor showed up and you know he was going to have sex with their with Anne Marie and he 494 00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:34,820 brought chocolates for the young girl and she even mentioned that the man was actually 495 00:38:34,820 --> 00:38:40,460 very kind to her during the rape and even kept stopping and kind of checking in with her 496 00:38:40,460 --> 00:38:46,500 about her feelings and making sure that he wasn't hurting her now you have to put yourself 497 00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:53,740 in her shoes that when you're you're experiencing a ton of abuse that this does seem kind and 498 00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:57,380 that he was being thoughtful I guess of her actions in this convoluted way and you're 499 00:38:57,380 --> 00:39:01,740 like no you're a grown man going to rape a kid you knew what you were doing is wrong was 500 00:39:01,740 --> 00:39:04,780 wrong that's why you're so worried about her and then you brought chocolates I guess 501 00:39:04,780 --> 00:39:08,940 to make it better I mean you're still a child rapeist sir but I guess being nice matters 502 00:39:08,940 --> 00:39:15,540 but either way while she didn't want the chocolates she couldn't have them anyway because Rose 503 00:39:15,540 --> 00:39:22,100 took them from her and sat down in a chair and ate them in front of her while laughing at 504 00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:33,900 Anne Marie like this parting gift she couldn't even have that and Anne Marie said well I didn't 505 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:38,580 want the chocolates but I can tell you I just wanted someone to love me and if it's this 506 00:39:38,580 --> 00:39:44,580 man who shows up and shows that he cares about my feelings in some way then I was willing 507 00:39:44,580 --> 00:39:49,940 to accept that maybe that was love and boom if the hammer doesn't drop right there because 508 00:39:49,940 --> 00:39:53,820 does that not sound like a lot of teen girls who go searching for love in all the wrong 509 00:39:53,820 --> 00:40:02,500 places mistaking sex for love and this type of behavior and abuse would continue until 510 00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:06,580 Anne Marie just couldn't take it anymore and at the age of 15 Anne Marie she ran away from 511 00:40:06,580 --> 00:40:10,380 home she said I'm done I'd rather go live on the streets by myself then put up with this 512 00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:15,060 another minute and I know I've spent a lot of time discussing what happened to this one 513 00:40:15,060 --> 00:40:19,060 daughter of his compared to a lot of the other victims I'm about to get to but the reality 514 00:40:19,060 --> 00:40:24,380 is we don't know exactly what happened to a lot of these victims spoiler alert because 515 00:40:24,380 --> 00:40:28,660 they just up and disappeared so we don't have a story for them to tell but I would be 516 00:40:28,660 --> 00:40:33,420 hard pressed to think that it wasn't similar at least to what their daughter was experiencing 517 00:40:33,420 --> 00:40:38,860 if not worse and so I think it's really important that a spent the time on this daughter because 518 00:40:38,860 --> 00:40:45,460 it shows the mindset the the evil calculation and them just mean this of what she and her 519 00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:52,420 siblings experience behind those those walls and even more exciting for Fred right as 520 00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:57,940 he rapes young women down in that seller were the accessories I guess you would call them 521 00:40:57,940 --> 00:41:01,900 I don't know what else to call them but he created his own accessories for a more thrilling 522 00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:09,420 experience thrilling for him and Rose that is because the accessories would do nothing but 523 00:41:09,420 --> 00:41:15,900 instill extreme horror on the girls who were forced to wear them like something straight 524 00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:21,660 out of the movie saw Fred and his wife would enjoy toying with their victims during these 525 00:41:21,660 --> 00:41:30,460 horrendous sex games that included homemade torture masks which the girls would see when 526 00:41:30,460 --> 00:41:37,740 they went down in the seller before they were put on them and it would limit their senses 527 00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:44,300 other than being able to breathe they couldn't see anything they couldn't hear anything they're 528 00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:52,340 just sitting in blind darkness praying for the pain and the torture to stop so what exactly do 529 00:41:52,340 --> 00:41:57,060 I mean by this well here's an example one of the masks that was used in the torture sessions 530 00:41:57,060 --> 00:42:03,940 was found at a later date and I'll explain it it limited all of the senses including sight 531 00:42:03,940 --> 00:42:12,740 and hearing all that was left was was was their ability to quote unquote breathe but that's 532 00:42:12,740 --> 00:42:20,300 even a stretch because the mask was was made of like tape and all that that was available 533 00:42:20,300 --> 00:42:27,180 to the to the victim were two pipes that were stuffed up in their noses that allowed them 534 00:42:27,180 --> 00:42:32,580 to somewhat breathe but it basically just prolonged their agony so their entire face 535 00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:37,860 was taped up and they had these two pipes that were stuck out of their nose so that they 536 00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:45,980 could attempt to breathe so I was looking at some some studies that were done by some some 537 00:42:45,980 --> 00:42:49,460 psychologist because I was trying to really get my mindset around why someone would want 538 00:42:49,460 --> 00:42:53,860 to do this not that it's ever acceptable but but the why and there was a doctor Samuel 539 00:42:53,860 --> 00:43:00,940 Smith-Amen who was a US clinical psychologist and he anonymously interviewed 50 men now 540 00:43:00,940 --> 00:43:05,140 this was back in the 70s but hey the time frame fits for the for the time frame that some 541 00:43:05,140 --> 00:43:10,100 of this was happening who had confessed to having raped someone alright so he studied these 542 00:43:10,100 --> 00:43:17,860 50 men and all of these men had diverse backgrounds diverse social statuses different personalities 543 00:43:17,860 --> 00:43:22,660 different mentalities about why they went about what they did but what surprised him most 544 00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:30,180 about everything that they said was how unconcerned they sounded when they talked about rape 545 00:43:30,180 --> 00:43:37,180 they were not concerned with it as a criminal offense it was more about what they experienced 546 00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:43,740 during the rape and motives behind rape y'all they're difficult to quantify okay but 547 00:43:43,740 --> 00:43:50,060 the studies show that rapists do have similar characteristics and the top three being these 548 00:43:50,060 --> 00:43:59,820 tell me if it sounds like Fred a lack of empathy toward others narcissism and feelings of hostility 549 00:43:59,820 --> 00:44:08,100 towards women hello he fits the bill perfectly right and then here was a quote and I had to put 550 00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:11,740 this in here and I had to read it to you because it's dumb founding one of the rapists that 551 00:44:11,740 --> 00:44:17,980 he interviewed this is a direct quote he says I felt as if I had gotten something that I 552 00:44:17,980 --> 00:44:28,300 was entitled to and I felt I was repaying her for sexually arousing me the man described 553 00:44:28,300 --> 00:44:37,460 both of his rape experiences as quote powerful titillating and very exciting and I felt like 554 00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:43,020 that fit Fred right he was repaying the women who sexually aroused him as if it was their 555 00:44:43,020 --> 00:44:52,340 fault that he was turned on by them what in the hill kind of mixed up brain do you have 556 00:44:52,340 --> 00:44:57,500 going on that you think someone needs to pay for the attractiveness that you feel they put 557 00:44:57,500 --> 00:45:05,940 off victim blaming much something I like to do is I like to put myself in the victim's position 558 00:45:05,940 --> 00:45:10,700 because then it helps me understand exactly what the victim went through maybe not exactly 559 00:45:10,700 --> 00:45:17,220 because I can't understand torture in in conjunction with terror because I've never been tortured 560 00:45:17,220 --> 00:45:22,180 and terrorized like these these victims that I'm about to get to where and I but I don't 561 00:45:22,180 --> 00:45:26,260 have the capacity to just block it out like some people do some people have mentioned 562 00:45:26,260 --> 00:45:29,940 to me you know I have to fast forward through some of your episode because it's so it's 563 00:45:29,940 --> 00:45:38,820 so striking well it should be and hey if you have to fast forward that's fine but I'm telling 564 00:45:38,820 --> 00:45:48,060 you the details because you've got to understand what these people went through so that we don't 565 00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:55,740 give these people an ounce of freedom because if you don't fully understand what punishment 566 00:45:55,740 --> 00:46:04,540 is and what role it plays in the justice system you're not gonna understand it if you don't 567 00:46:04,540 --> 00:46:09,580 know if you block out what happened to these people as rough as it is that's why people 568 00:46:09,580 --> 00:46:19,220 get away with it because people don't want to hear it so maybe you're somebody who doesn't 569 00:46:19,220 --> 00:46:27,060 think that the role of the justice system is you know to get even or whatever I'm sorry I do I mean 570 00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:34,220 the really sad part is that we're not getting even actually we are we're trying to punish people 571 00:46:34,220 --> 00:46:43,980 with a level of decency that those people refused to show their victims and we can't punish people 572 00:46:43,980 --> 00:46:51,660 in the same way that they punished their victims because we are not those people and we don't 573 00:46:51,660 --> 00:46:56,740 want to be those people no matter how how hard or bad these episodes are to listen to they 574 00:46:56,740 --> 00:47:02,540 are the story the details are the story and if not then all we're gonna have is a bunch 575 00:47:02,540 --> 00:47:07,540 of missing people or people who are dead and that just sounds like basic everyday existence 576 00:47:07,540 --> 00:47:13,420 to me because people live and people die how they die is the story and we have to explore 577 00:47:13,420 --> 00:47:19,580 it I wouldn't expect a jury to want to know I wouldn't expect a jury to not want to know all of the 578 00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:24,220 details because if not then they're not going to fully understand what was done and the justice will 579 00:47:24,220 --> 00:47:32,540 not prevail and I know that in the last episode I listed a bunch of people that went missing after 580 00:47:32,540 --> 00:47:37,020 their interactions with the West's but in this portion of this episode I'm going to take a different 581 00:47:37,020 --> 00:47:42,060 approach obviously you understand that these people don't just disappear into thin air something 582 00:47:42,060 --> 00:47:47,420 happen to them and I also know that there's been a lot of victims so far so I did put a graphic on 583 00:47:47,420 --> 00:47:52,220 Facebook to kind of help keep track if you want to I've put it on my Patreon page as well if you're 584 00:47:52,220 --> 00:47:56,780 trying to keep up with with everything that went on but I'm gonna pick back up now with another 585 00:47:56,780 --> 00:48:04,620 victim and her name is Linda go GOG-O-U-G-H I know some people say golf I'm just gonna say go now Linda 586 00:48:04,620 --> 00:48:12,060 go attended um you know school like a normal girl and then she later went on to a private school that 587 00:48:12,060 --> 00:48:18,380 was just for girls and then when she was done with school this is in 1969 she started working as a 588 00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:23,020 seamstress and was just making her way in life and you're like Kelly why are you going way back in the 589 00:48:23,020 --> 00:48:27,820 gap with these stories because this crime spree that I'm telling you about lasted 20 years 590 00:48:27,820 --> 00:48:33,660 this wasn't one week this is a 20 year crime spree that I'm telling you I'm telling you about 591 00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:39,740 but this young girl Linda is just making her way she's working as a seamstress and on April 19th and 592 00:48:39,740 --> 00:48:45,900 this is in 1973 Linda left her family's home after leaving a note that said she was going to a nearby 593 00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:52,780 apartment to hang out and according to the to the neighbors of the West's Linda had become friendly 594 00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:56,780 with a lot of the people that came and go at the West's home and this is gonna be at what's known as 595 00:48:56,780 --> 00:49:02,540 25 Cromwell Street and it's believed that she was having sex with some of them and she was just 596 00:49:02,540 --> 00:49:10,220 having fun and kind of live in you know a young girl's crazy life but one neighbor neighbor named 597 00:49:10,220 --> 00:49:16,780 Mr. Wonsall or Wonsall he described Linda as quote unquote naive and he didn't feel like Linda 598 00:49:16,780 --> 00:49:22,460 really understood the gravity of the situation that she was putting herself in she was only 19 years old 599 00:49:22,460 --> 00:49:30,860 and wouldn't you know that in April of 1973 19 year old Linda would poof just vanish after she 600 00:49:30,860 --> 00:49:37,340 went to go visit that apartment of the West's now her parents would just tell a local police officer 601 00:49:37,340 --> 00:49:43,980 friend of theirs that she never returned home but she just flat out disappeared and was never seen 602 00:49:43,980 --> 00:49:51,740 or heard from again after leaving to go visit the West's so then we move on to and I know I'm limiting 603 00:49:51,740 --> 00:49:55,980 limited on details there there's a reason okay there's nothing much to tell at this moment 604 00:49:56,700 --> 00:50:02,380 caroland Cooper was another female and she lived at a place called the pines children home and I did 605 00:50:02,380 --> 00:50:09,020 look this up to kind of figure out exactly what it was and it seems to be like a group home I guess 606 00:50:09,020 --> 00:50:14,140 but the kids are allowed to leave if they get their proper permission and that said she had been 607 00:50:14,140 --> 00:50:19,420 given permission to spend the weekend with her grandmother so during the afternoon of November 10th 608 00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:26,460 1973 Carol was allowed to go see her grandmother who then let her go to the movies with some of her 609 00:50:26,460 --> 00:50:33,820 friends and she was last seen around 9 p.m. getting onto a bus which everyone assumes she was heading 610 00:50:33,820 --> 00:50:40,460 home the next day she wasn't she still wasn't home and so her grandmother reported her missing 611 00:50:40,460 --> 00:50:48,700 they did an extensive search but 15 year old carol was never seen or heard from again once she loaded 612 00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:57,900 that bus or was waiting for that bus then we have Lucy partington Lucy was 19 years old and she had 613 00:50:57,900 --> 00:51:04,060 left for college on December 20th of 1973 if you notice these are just months apart 614 00:51:04,060 --> 00:51:10,620 Lucy returned home to spend some time with her family during the Christmas break and on December 27th 615 00:51:10,620 --> 00:51:15,820 like most college young you know girls do she went to hang out with some of her hometown friends 616 00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:24,140 and around 10 p.m. just like little 15 year old carol i just mentioned she left her friend's house 617 00:51:24,140 --> 00:51:29,340 and she walked a short distance to where a bus stop was and her plan there was to catch a bus to 618 00:51:29,340 --> 00:51:37,580 go back home and as you can guess Lucy never made it back home the next day her family reported her 619 00:51:37,580 --> 00:51:45,020 missing again a major investigation was launched but Lucy was never traced never seen or never heard 620 00:51:45,020 --> 00:51:55,820 from again 16 year old Teresa Seagand Thaler she was a high school dropout from what i've understood 621 00:51:55,820 --> 00:52:01,260 this to be but she wasn't a stupid girl and she did continue her education she was actually studying 622 00:52:01,260 --> 00:52:07,500 for diploma in what was called secretarial studies and she actually would even continue further 623 00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:13,820 and become a sociology student and on the weekends she was working at a store at a local shopping center 624 00:52:13,820 --> 00:52:20,860 and she was living again a normal life with small jobs like young girls her age would get in April of 1974 625 00:52:20,860 --> 00:52:26,380 she left she left a place where she was staying for you know her room and board 626 00:52:26,380 --> 00:52:32,140 and she was intending to travel back home after she went for an Easter visit 627 00:52:32,140 --> 00:52:35,740 she never even reached her destination 628 00:52:35,740 --> 00:52:43,740 and she was due back to school basically after the Easter break and she never showed up there either 629 00:52:43,740 --> 00:52:48,540 so she was reported missing by the police and i know i'm about to sound like a broken record but 630 00:52:48,540 --> 00:52:54,700 an investigation was carried out for literally years they looked for her with no success she vanished 631 00:52:54,700 --> 00:52:57,740 and was never seen or heard from again 632 00:52:57,740 --> 00:53:05,740 Shirley Hubbard now she was born under the name Shirley Lloyd but she also went by the name 633 00:53:05,740 --> 00:53:09,820 Shirley Owen so if you go research any of this you might say oh my god you got the name wrong she 634 00:53:09,820 --> 00:53:16,300 well the homegirl changed her name a few times okay but in 1972 she was going by the name Shirley Hubbard 635 00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:21,900 even though it wasn't her legal name and she was in high school and from what I understand she was 636 00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:27,660 working at what we would consider to be like an internship program and on Friday November 637 00:53:27,660 --> 00:53:39,100 14th of 1974 Shirley left work at a place called Deben Hams and was heading home she never made it home 638 00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:45,260 she was listed as a missing person and a search was done for her i mean she was a young girl she was 639 00:53:45,260 --> 00:53:54,460 only 15 years old and the search turned up nothing she was never seen or heard from again so real quick 640 00:53:54,460 --> 00:54:01,180 Carol Cooper Lucy Partington Teresa Seagand Thaler and Shirley Hubbard all are missing all have gone 641 00:54:01,180 --> 00:54:07,900 to take buses all are never seen or heard from again so now we have 18 year old Juanita Mat 642 00:54:07,900 --> 00:54:13,180 she was going to an all-girl school which she left in 1972 and she had taken on a number of little 643 00:54:13,180 --> 00:54:17,980 short term jobs she was working at a real retail shop she had also worked at an attorney's office 644 00:54:17,980 --> 00:54:24,540 kind of like answering the phones doing secretary work but on April 11th of 1975 she left 645 00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:30,460 the address of the home where she was then staying and no one's quite sure where she was heading that day 646 00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:36,940 but she was for sure expected to return home the next day but she never did 647 00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:42,540 and something that kind of hurt my heart for little Juanita was that she was never reported missing 648 00:54:42,540 --> 00:54:49,180 to the police by anyone i guess a little solace could be achieved and that her family contacted the 649 00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:56,860 missing persons bureau and they also talked to the media but she was never formally you know written 650 00:54:56,860 --> 00:55:03,020 out as missing formally on paper and the details of her going missing because her parents went to the 651 00:55:03,020 --> 00:55:08,860 media it was in articles and magazines and newspapers but she just up and disappeared whenever she left 652 00:55:08,860 --> 00:55:17,100 on that bus and was never seen or heard from again we have a 16 year old Allison who was a very 653 00:55:17,100 --> 00:55:22,060 driven young girl and she worked too at a law firm on her internship for youth who were aspiring 654 00:55:22,060 --> 00:55:28,220 to be lawyers and the details of you know Allison's disappearance are not well known or documented 655 00:55:28,220 --> 00:55:32,460 all we know is that she was reported to that missing persons bureau as well and 656 00:55:33,340 --> 00:55:39,340 initially though she was reported to the police as an absconder which is basically like a runaway 657 00:55:39,340 --> 00:55:45,900 and after she was reported as a runaway nothing ever came of it she was never seen or heard from 658 00:55:45,900 --> 00:55:49,980 again and i know you're like okay Kelly well wow please don't get lost in the fact that these are 659 00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:54,220 young girls that are going missing and there doesn't seem to be a clue as to where they're headed 660 00:55:54,220 --> 00:55:59,020 and it doesn't even seem to be linked that these are young teen girls going to bus stops 661 00:55:59,020 --> 00:56:03,180 and never being seen or heard from again that's what we in the biz would call a clue right 662 00:56:03,180 --> 00:56:10,540 well one of the last people i'm going to mention in this list of missing girls was actually 663 00:56:10,540 --> 00:56:14,780 going to be someone we know to be a victim of the west and it's even harder to comprehend 664 00:56:14,780 --> 00:56:20,780 because the name of this victim might lean some credence as to why but her name is Heather West 665 00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:29,660 Heather was born in 1970 and she was actually the first biological child of rose and fred 666 00:56:29,660 --> 00:56:36,540 and she lived with her family until they moved to that cromwell street i mentioned earlier in 1972 667 00:56:36,540 --> 00:56:44,300 and Heather's life seems to be a whole lot like what her her half-sister you know Ann Marie 668 00:56:44,300 --> 00:56:50,780 Ann Marie's life was like because when there were Ann Marie's or half-sister she was born to 669 00:56:51,580 --> 00:56:59,260 another mother which was fred's first wife and then fred's first wife went missing and she was raised 670 00:56:59,260 --> 00:57:09,020 by rose and fred now Heather was subjected to all sorts of abuse from physical to emotional to 671 00:57:09,020 --> 00:57:14,540 sexual and beyond just like Ann Marie was but Ann Marie left the home when she was 15 her younger 672 00:57:14,540 --> 00:57:20,300 sister Heather was not as lucky and she remained in that house of horrors with her parents until she 673 00:57:20,300 --> 00:57:28,620 went missing she was last seen on June 19th of 1987 when she was 16 years old and this is sad too 674 00:57:28,620 --> 00:57:36,780 she was never reported as missing to the police she just poof up and vanished and fred and rose 675 00:57:36,780 --> 00:57:43,500 never said anything but they wouldn't right they wouldn't have said anything because they were 676 00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:48,940 telling a story to people anyone that would ask that she had run away from home or that she had 677 00:57:48,940 --> 00:57:55,340 eloped at 16 years old I don't know where you're from when you're 16 years old we call it snatch 678 00:57:55,340 --> 00:57:59,420 and a knot in your ass down here in the south my mama I don't care if I'm 30 years old if I'm acting 679 00:57:59,420 --> 00:58:05,340 up my mama come get me 16 year olds and you're just gonna say oh she ran away girl get out of my 680 00:58:05,340 --> 00:58:10,620 way because mama's coming to get you and snatch that proverbial knot in your ass take you back home 681 00:58:10,620 --> 00:58:18,300 all right so all of these people have gone missing and no one knows what's happened to them 682 00:58:19,180 --> 00:58:28,300 well a few years later as fate would have it the West children that are remaining in the home were 683 00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:37,340 placed into foster care for neglect and suspected abuse and this would be in the summer of 1992 684 00:58:37,340 --> 00:58:42,300 now remember me earlier stating that kids who are abused aren't likely to speak up when their 685 00:58:42,300 --> 00:58:47,900 abusers are in charge of them not to mention that convoluted mental and emotional abuse the kids 686 00:58:47,900 --> 00:58:53,740 were experiencing at the hands of rose and fret right well remove them from that environment and 687 00:58:53,740 --> 00:59:00,220 what do you know the kids got a taste of normalcy and as time went on they started to let their guard down 688 00:59:00,220 --> 00:59:06,300 well when they let their guard down they started talking more and that said in the presence of their 689 00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:12,860 foster care parents the children would make offhand comments about the family joke they all shared 690 00:59:12,860 --> 00:59:20,300 about missing headers whereabouts now how could you possibly have your missing sister be funny 691 00:59:20,300 --> 00:59:28,620 right and worse than that is the joke itself okay the joke was that their sister was buried in the 692 00:59:28,620 --> 00:59:35,340 family garden now knowing what you know now as I'm armchair quarterbacking this story this would seem 693 00:59:35,340 --> 00:59:40,140 rather obvious of an issue right for the kids to be saying this but that's not the case for the 694 00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:46,860 people who were living in the moment it didn't strike them a strange however as time went on and the 695 00:59:46,860 --> 00:59:53,580 kids kept saying the same thing it did kind of raise a few eyebrows and so the foster parents and 696 00:59:53,580 --> 00:59:58,620 the social workers began to start documenting it when the kids would say it and over the next year 697 00:59:58,620 --> 01:00:04,860 social workers documented the children's comments and considering their stories didn't change multiple 698 01:00:04,860 --> 01:00:10,540 children were saying it and the fact that the people they were talking about were missing the police 699 01:00:10,540 --> 01:00:16,620 believed that their comments were enough to open a legit investigation so in the summer of 1993 700 01:00:16,620 --> 01:00:20,940 police began to search for Heather who was never officially reported missing by either parent 701 01:00:20,940 --> 01:00:26,860 and when they questioned Fred he scoffed at the idea and claimed that he had just seen Heather a few 702 01:00:26,860 --> 01:00:31,900 days before they launched this new inquiry about her whereabouts but unable to have Heather show up 703 01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:38,860 or make any actual contact with her police weren't buying it you can imagine you know you can you 704 01:00:38,860 --> 01:00:43,260 can continue to bleed your own lies but Carm is a bitch my friend and they weren't gonna 705 01:00:43,260 --> 01:00:49,260 buy these lies they weren't children they were adults right looking for this missing girl so when 706 01:00:49,260 --> 01:00:54,700 the new search for Heather turned up empty the police were able to obtain an and execute a search 707 01:00:54,700 --> 01:01:01,340 warrant on the West residents at 25 Cromwell Street the kids were still claiming the family joke 708 01:01:01,340 --> 01:01:07,900 was that she was buried in the garden so on February of 1994 a search warrant was obtained by detective 709 01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:14,700 Terry Moore and detectives detective Tony James and they accompanied approximately 15 other officers 710 01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:19,420 to the home where they encountered Rosemary West and they advised her that they were going to be 711 01:01:19,420 --> 01:01:23,980 searching her rear garden in connection with the disappearance of her daughter Heather West 712 01:01:23,980 --> 01:01:30,220 now at that time Fred was about to leave work but he never came home rather he went 713 01:01:30,220 --> 01:01:36,220 directly to the police station and gave a voluntary statement the detective who took that statement 714 01:01:36,220 --> 01:01:41,580 was named detective Savage which is sick if I was a detective I'd want to be detective Savage 715 01:01:41,580 --> 01:01:47,340 but anyway he took the the the statement on the disappearance of Heather and that's whenever he had 716 01:01:47,340 --> 01:01:53,740 claimed oh I just saw Heather in a nearby town this is ridiculous Latida well about that same 717 01:01:53,740 --> 01:01:58,780 time Rosemary West was being interviewed at home and they were tape recording her interview 718 01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:04,540 so when Fred was done being interviewed he returned home and then they did what any parents of a 719 01:02:04,540 --> 01:02:09,420 missing child would do they got their dog and they went for a walk and they walked their dogs 720 01:02:09,420 --> 01:02:15,820 whatever the police are gonna dig in my backyard and I'm gonna go walk my dogs makes perfect sense to 721 01:02:15,820 --> 01:02:19,980 me you know when someone's trying so hard to act like they're not involved in something that it's 722 01:02:19,980 --> 01:02:24,220 ridiculous how they do behave I'd be wild and out like don't you tear up my flowers what are you doing 723 01:02:24,220 --> 01:02:30,140 you know the following day detectives met Fred West at his front door and they explain look we got 724 01:02:30,140 --> 01:02:35,340 some more questions about some of your relatives and so he lets them in and they go into a living room 725 01:02:35,340 --> 01:02:40,700 where Rosemary is watching television and so they start asking some questions but when they ask 726 01:02:40,700 --> 01:02:47,420 Rose about her mother she becomes uncooperative and flat out indignant about why they're asking all 727 01:02:47,420 --> 01:02:53,580 these questions well Fred grabs her and says go out into the hallway we need to have a private 728 01:02:53,580 --> 01:02:58,620 discussion and they shut the door behind them while the officers remained in that living room and after 729 01:02:58,620 --> 01:03:04,380 a few seconds he returned and said can we just go to the police station so the officers walked out 730 01:03:04,380 --> 01:03:09,260 of the front door with Fred and got into a police car that was parked out outside of the house 731 01:03:09,260 --> 01:03:15,420 and it was right then that Fred astonishingly admitted yeah Heather is dead and I buried her in 732 01:03:15,420 --> 01:03:23,820 the garden like what you just spill the beans just like that and then he just matter of fact we 733 01:03:23,820 --> 01:03:28,700 explain look the police are just looking in the wrong place his dead daughter is in his backyard 734 01:03:28,700 --> 01:03:34,620 and they're just digging in the wrong place so detective savage arrested Fred for the murder of his 735 01:03:34,620 --> 01:03:46,300 daughter and Fred had such devotion to his beloved Rose that he even is reported to have told their 736 01:03:46,300 --> 01:03:54,460 son Stephen just before he was going off to the police and this is a quote look son look after mom 737 01:03:54,460 --> 01:04:00,140 and sell the house I've done something really bad I want you to go to the papers and make as much 738 01:04:00,140 --> 01:04:08,300 money as you possibly can so now this dude's trying to cash in on his evilness on the flip side 739 01:04:08,300 --> 01:04:15,340 rosemary also immediately called and Marie that they had been raping and torturing and all that good 740 01:04:15,340 --> 01:04:21,900 stuff and told her she better shut her mouth and not say anything about her father because he had 741 01:04:21,900 --> 01:04:27,500 been arrested so he was taken to the police station and he was detained there and later rosemary 742 01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:33,260 west was arrested at home on suspicion of the murder of Heather west by detective onions which is 743 01:04:33,260 --> 01:04:38,940 almost comical but that's his real name so we got savage and onions handling business okay in this case 744 01:04:38,940 --> 01:04:45,100 so she was taken to the police station and she was interviewed by detective onions but she vehemently 745 01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:51,020 denied knowing anything about the murder of Heather well Fred was interviewed again and when that 746 01:04:51,020 --> 01:04:56,780 happened he gave some explanation about the circumstances surrounding Heather's death and then 747 01:04:56,780 --> 01:05:02,860 accompanied the detectives back to the house garden where they then roughly kind of indicated the area 748 01:05:02,860 --> 01:05:09,020 where Heather should be in the backyard so officers were digging in the rear garden and then 749 01:05:09,020 --> 01:05:16,700 close to the surface right around the location where Fred pointed a human bone was found so they 750 01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:22,380 took that bone to the police station and the pathologist there his name was professor Bernard night 751 01:05:22,380 --> 01:05:29,100 he confirmed yes this is a human bone and this is a femur so he went back with the police to the home 752 01:05:29,100 --> 01:05:33,980 and he continued to excavate the remainder of the remains which were determined later on to be that 753 01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:41,900 of Heather west and when the remains were excavated both femurs found were found to be present 754 01:05:41,900 --> 01:05:51,580 so and Marie right that sister that had moved out when she was 15 do you know she found out about 755 01:05:51,580 --> 01:05:58,300 her father being arrested and then found out that her sister indeed had not run away but was dead 756 01:05:58,300 --> 01:06:05,420 and buried in the garden under the patio on her own child's birthday she was having a birthday 757 01:06:05,420 --> 01:06:11,740 party for her daughter when the call would come in from the police they were lighting the cake and 758 01:06:11,740 --> 01:06:15,740 the candles and getting ready to sing happy birthday to her child and I want to say this is a 759 01:06:15,740 --> 01:06:22,380 testament to how tough this girl is this girl turned woman do you know she never stopped the party 760 01:06:22,380 --> 01:06:28,780 for her child she found out oh my god my sister is not run away she's dead she was buried in our back 761 01:06:28,780 --> 01:06:37,260 yard and she hung up the phone she said she went to the bathroom she collected herself and then she 762 01:06:37,260 --> 01:06:42,620 walked out and continued the party like nothing had happened but then afterwards after she saved face 763 01:06:42,620 --> 01:06:47,900 for her child and gave the best party she could and after everyone left she said she sat down and 764 01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:55,260 just thought my god they called me by phone to tell me my sister was buried in my back yard that I 765 01:06:55,260 --> 01:07:00,700 grew up in that was a bit insensitive and I would agree with her on that I think all death notifications 766 01:07:00,700 --> 01:07:09,340 should be done in person if if the circumstances are available and she said she was really hurt too 767 01:07:09,340 --> 01:07:14,540 because her sister Heather had asked her right before her disappearance if she could come live with her 768 01:07:14,540 --> 01:07:20,700 and she told her no but the reason she told her no was because she was afraid that if she 769 01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:27,340 brought her with you know brought her home with her she was afraid that Rose and Fred would show up 770 01:07:27,340 --> 01:07:33,580 and take her back to their house and was afraid they might really end up hurting Heather so the whole time 771 01:07:33,580 --> 01:07:40,620 she thought she was protecting her sister it really in reality kind of went the other way and I can 772 01:07:40,620 --> 01:07:44,220 imagine how much pain that must leave on your shoulders to know your sister was begging to live with 773 01:07:44,220 --> 01:07:49,260 you and you told her no thinking it was protective and then she ends up dead and buried in the back yard 774 01:07:49,260 --> 01:07:58,540 now Fred being the father of the year that he is would also tell Anne Marie later on that Rose had 775 01:07:58,540 --> 01:08:05,020 said she wanted to get a fish pond in the back yard like a small little coy pond you know and so Heather 776 01:08:05,020 --> 01:08:13,020 and Stephen the brother went out there and they dug and created the big hole for the fish pond 777 01:08:13,020 --> 01:08:18,940 and then they put down this blue like you know plastic liner and then Fred let Anne Marie know 778 01:08:18,940 --> 01:08:22,860 that Rose abruptly decided that she had changed her mind and she didn't want the fish pond anymore 779 01:08:22,860 --> 01:08:31,020 never mind but in reality what Heather and Stephen didn't know was that Heather had just dug her own grave 780 01:08:31,020 --> 01:08:38,460 he told that to Anne Marie he also mentioned that before they dumped her in that hole that they cut 781 01:08:38,460 --> 01:08:43,660 her sister in half and placed her in garbage cans until they decided how they were going to actually 782 01:08:43,660 --> 01:08:50,060 bury her what did he think he was getting gaining by telling her that I have no clue 783 01:08:51,180 --> 01:08:56,060 and there was a neighbor named Jane Hammer and she came forward with some interesting information to 784 01:08:56,060 --> 01:09:01,660 add about the West household and this is some quotes that she she gave she said I got to know Fred 785 01:09:01,660 --> 01:09:07,660 fairly well Rose Mary was harder to get on with and very domineering very curt and she seemed like a 786 01:09:07,660 --> 01:09:14,060 very controlling person she definitely ruled the roost she went on to say I heard screaming in the 787 01:09:14,060 --> 01:09:19,580 middle of the night and stop it daddy stop it daddy it sounded like one of the younger children 788 01:09:20,300 --> 01:09:26,860 this was my reason for leaving I thought I might be next Fred once took me down to the cellar and showed it to 789 01:09:26,860 --> 01:09:31,500 me there was a little bed in there and I thought it was for children and I found out later it wasn't 790 01:09:31,500 --> 01:09:40,460 when I look back now I wonder why I was baby sitting sorry boom when I look back now I wonder why I was 791 01:09:40,460 --> 01:09:46,460 babysitting the children what were Fred and Rose Mary doing maybe they were going out to find victims 792 01:09:46,460 --> 01:09:52,060 oh my god y'all hindsight is 2020 imagine how creepy here in those poor kids screen stop it 793 01:09:52,060 --> 01:09:59,500 and all the while he's doing horrible things to them Fred was then again interviewed but this time 794 01:09:59,500 --> 01:10:04,300 he's retracted his admission of killing Heather but after a little bit he then retracted his 795 01:10:04,300 --> 01:10:10,380 retraction and admitted to the murder again so he's like Waffelon back and forth and there was an 796 01:10:10,380 --> 01:10:18,700 issue though see when they found Heather's femur they found a third one and no one had made mention 797 01:10:18,700 --> 01:10:23,900 of the fact that Heather had three legs so it couldn't have been Heather's right so there were three 798 01:10:23,900 --> 01:10:32,060 total femurs uh oh Freddy that ain't good he was questioned about that femur found in the garden 799 01:10:32,060 --> 01:10:38,140 and then promptly admitted to killing and burying a person that he called Shirley Robinson and now as 800 01:10:38,140 --> 01:10:45,020 you can see the proverb the proverbial poop is hitting the fan my friends because I believe he admitted 801 01:10:45,020 --> 01:10:50,540 to killing Heather in that moment because he wanted to make it just stop after they dug up her one 802 01:10:50,540 --> 01:10:56,300 body and he figured okay I'll take the wrap for Heather Rose will be you know left at home and I'll 803 01:10:56,300 --> 01:11:01,500 be the bad guy and he'll be over with they won't keep digging but the problem was that third femur 804 01:11:01,500 --> 01:11:09,100 popped up and he had to explain for it so he admitted that he killed and had strangled a person that he 805 01:11:09,100 --> 01:11:16,620 described as a friend of Shirley Robinson this person ended up being that Allison Chambers and I 806 01:11:16,620 --> 01:11:21,580 want you to note that the investigation was never able to even establish a link between Allison 807 01:11:21,580 --> 01:11:28,380 Chambers and Shirley Robinson and we uh Fred just got his crap wrong because the truth was that 808 01:11:28,380 --> 01:11:36,060 Shirley disappeared in May of 78 and Allison didn't even come to that area to live until January 809 01:11:36,060 --> 01:11:39,820 so it couldn't have been true it's hard to keep your murders in law straight ain't it 810 01:11:39,820 --> 01:11:46,700 so Rose Mary West was then also arrested for the murders of Shirley Robinson and the unknown 811 01:11:46,700 --> 01:11:52,700 female who would turn out to be Allison Chambers so they took Fred back to the Cromwell Street 812 01:11:52,700 --> 01:11:59,180 address and he indicated where he had buried Shirley and Allison he was in further question about 813 01:11:59,180 --> 01:12:06,540 Heather's murder to which he said was done without Rose Mary West's knowledge and Rose would make 814 01:12:06,540 --> 01:12:14,380 bail about 10 o'clock in the morning on April the 25th of 94 that same day Fred was interviewed and 815 01:12:14,380 --> 01:12:19,980 he explained how he killed Shirley Robinson which the details were not exactly clear on that so I 816 01:12:19,980 --> 01:12:24,060 don't I don't have much to add to that but we know that he did say he strangled her and that he you 817 01:12:24,060 --> 01:12:31,180 know killed her that professor Bernard Knight attended the house and he again started examining the 818 01:12:31,180 --> 01:12:37,660 remains that they found and did a forensic examination the following Wednesday which would have been 819 01:12:37,660 --> 01:12:42,860 March the 2nd detectives received information from a member of the public that there was a person 820 01:12:42,860 --> 01:12:49,500 who had gone missing named Linda go and that she had stayed with Fred and Fred flat out denied the 821 01:12:49,500 --> 01:12:54,540 saying I don't even know who Linda is I've never heard that name before in my life but then the next day 822 01:12:54,540 --> 01:12:59,820 Fred was interviewed again and he got caught up and he ended up admitting okay yeah I do no Linda but 823 01:12:59,820 --> 01:13:06,540 I didn't do anything to her she just moved away well on March 4th which was two days later they 824 01:13:06,540 --> 01:13:12,460 police brought in ground scanning equipment and that's when Fred really started sweating the 825 01:13:12,460 --> 01:13:21,180 pressure okay and he ended up giving in he gave a handwritten note to detective Bennett and it stated 826 01:13:21,180 --> 01:13:28,140 this is a quote I Frederick West authorized my attorney Howard Ogden to advise superintendant 827 01:13:28,140 --> 01:13:37,020 Bennett that I wish to admit to a further approximate nine killings expressly Charmaine Reena Linda 828 01:13:37,020 --> 01:13:44,300 go and others to be identified and it was a it was signed F West and I can't say that I don't agree 829 01:13:44,300 --> 01:13:51,340 with that sentiment F U West he was then interviewed and admitted killing and bearing Linda go 830 01:13:51,340 --> 01:13:59,020 Reena and Charmaine remember his eight-year-old daughter he also gave an explanation about how Lucy 831 01:13:59,020 --> 01:14:05,340 Partington was killed so detectives took Fred back to the house again but this time you know word 832 01:14:05,340 --> 01:14:09,740 was starting to get out so they had to dress him similar to the police search team so it wouldn't 833 01:14:09,740 --> 01:14:14,860 draw attention to who his real identity was so they get him on the on the scene and then he started 834 01:14:14,860 --> 01:14:19,900 pointing out where the other bodies would be buried and then they returned him back to the police 835 01:14:19,900 --> 01:14:26,940 station and I want to add this in eight-year-old little Charmaine that Rose Mary killed she was lucky to 836 01:14:26,940 --> 01:14:31,740 have a sister like Anne Marie because when her remains were found first of all Anne Marie was 837 01:14:31,740 --> 01:14:40,220 absolutely devastated but she found she made sure that little Charmaine would be laid to rest with 838 01:14:40,220 --> 01:14:46,460 her mother's remains and she saw to it that they were put in the same coffin because she said they 839 01:14:46,460 --> 01:14:52,460 didn't get to be together in life and she wanted them to be together forever in the afterlife. 840 01:14:52,460 --> 01:15:00,220 Now interesting enough Fred would actually contact Anne Marie and claim how annoyed he was that she 841 01:15:00,220 --> 01:15:07,260 handled the funeral because Charmaine was his child and after all no one seemed to realize that he 842 01:15:07,260 --> 01:15:14,220 was actually the biggest victim of anyone in this entire case he lost a daughter actually too 843 01:15:14,220 --> 01:15:23,580 and an ex-wife. You know Anne Marie wanted to bring the the the remains home with her because 844 01:15:23,580 --> 01:15:27,420 after the service she wanted to have them cremated together and bring their bring their remains 845 01:15:27,420 --> 01:15:33,580 home with her and Fred got really mad saying that they needed to be put in the family plot and then 846 01:15:33,580 --> 01:15:40,060 he said to her that when you die Anne Marie please promise me that you'll be put in the plot too 847 01:15:40,060 --> 01:15:45,820 and that's when she looked at him and said you know what dad I'm sorry I can't make that promise to you. 848 01:15:45,820 --> 01:15:52,140 Can you imagine like you kill all these people and then you think you're a victim and then 849 01:15:52,140 --> 01:15:59,260 somehow you want to exercise your control over their remains absolutely incredible. So later the 850 01:15:59,260 --> 01:16:04,860 remains of a person that would be identified as that missing Teresa Seaganthaler she was found in 851 01:16:04,860 --> 01:16:12,460 the cellar of the home as well. Fred was then taken to another field another site away from the home 852 01:16:12,460 --> 01:16:20,060 and that's where he pointed out an area where his first wife Catherine Rina was buried and that same 853 01:16:20,060 --> 01:16:28,540 day the remains of Shirley Hubbard were found in the cellar of the West home as well. Then on March 6th 854 01:16:28,540 --> 01:16:38,220 the remains of Lucy Partington and Juanita Mott were found in the cellar. Now Lucy was actually in 855 01:16:38,220 --> 01:16:43,660 the cellar Juanita Mott her remains were found under the the staircase of the cellar. 856 01:16:45,420 --> 01:16:50,460 They found that Teresa Seaganthaler's body was in concrete like encased in concrete and she was 857 01:16:50,460 --> 01:16:55,820 in front of a false fireplace in the left hand corner of the cellar and I do have some pictures of 858 01:16:55,820 --> 01:17:03,180 that cellar that I will post to you so you can kind of see what I'm talking about. Then on March 8th 859 01:17:03,180 --> 01:17:08,940 the remains of Carol Ann Cooper were found in that cellar as well and detectives concluded that the 860 01:17:08,940 --> 01:17:13,660 West had actually picked her up while she was hitchhiking and brought her to their home and once they 861 01:17:13,660 --> 01:17:18,380 got her there they attacked her they tied her up they raped her and then tortured her to death. 862 01:17:18,380 --> 01:17:25,980 Fred was again taken back to the home and then he pointed out where a quote unquote girl was buried. 863 01:17:25,980 --> 01:17:33,100 Two days later the remains of Linda Goe were taken from underground and they were actually 864 01:17:33,100 --> 01:17:37,740 underneath what was called a bathroom area or was described as a bathroom area in the home. 865 01:17:39,020 --> 01:17:47,100 So they started interviewing Fred again and at this point he they started talking about Anne McFall 866 01:17:47,100 --> 01:17:52,300 and he explained yeah I knew Anne McFall but I didn't kill her I don't know anything about 867 01:17:52,300 --> 01:17:58,140 what happened to her but then on the next you know the next flip of the coin he indicated the 868 01:17:58,140 --> 01:18:02,380 position where he thought she might be buried but then when he realized what he had done he couldn't 869 01:18:02,380 --> 01:18:07,820 explain precisely how he knew this or how she met her death. Can you imagine killing so many people 870 01:18:07,820 --> 01:18:14,300 you can't even remember how you killed them or where they're buried in saying. So much digging was done 871 01:18:14,300 --> 01:18:21,980 around this house that they had to get advice from a civil engineer before they could continue digging 872 01:18:21,980 --> 01:18:26,460 because they were worried that the house was going to collapse around the digging and all the bodies 873 01:18:26,460 --> 01:18:32,540 that they were pulling out of it and when it was all said and done over 11 tons of concrete had to 874 01:18:32,540 --> 01:18:37,740 be brought in and and reef you know backfilled so that the house wouldn't collapse while they 875 01:18:37,740 --> 01:18:44,700 continued looking for more bodies. So in March of 1994 Fred was charged with the murders of 876 01:18:44,700 --> 01:18:52,700 Allison Chambers and when they pulled her body out they found a leather belt tied around her skull. 877 01:18:52,700 --> 01:18:59,180 So you can imagine she was being hung by her head or whatever with that with that belt and he was 878 01:18:59,180 --> 01:19:05,900 also charged with Lucy Partington's death, Juanita Mott's death and Linda Goes' death. Then in April 879 01:19:05,900 --> 01:19:12,540 Fred was charged with the murder of Teresa Segan Thaler and when they pulled her body out there was a 880 01:19:12,540 --> 01:19:20,540 knotted cloth rolled to form a loop kind of next to her body it was next to her skull and so basically 881 01:19:20,540 --> 01:19:25,820 they started finding the tools used to kill each individual person buried with the person if that's 882 01:19:25,820 --> 01:19:33,340 not horrific enough and then he was also charged with Shirley Hubbard and the bones of Shirley Hubbard 883 01:19:33,340 --> 01:19:41,020 remember she was 15 they were discovered and her skull was encased in a mask her skull was completely 884 01:19:41,020 --> 01:19:48,460 wrapped in a mask of brown packing packaging tape like when you're mailing a package and then inside 885 01:19:48,460 --> 01:19:54,380 of that tape the tubes that were shelved up her nose and then bent up for her to breathe through 886 01:19:54,380 --> 01:20:01,980 were still taped to her skull. The remains of Catherine Costello were also identified in that same 887 01:20:01,980 --> 01:20:08,220 month and they do believe that she too was strangled but she was also dismembered and her fingers and 888 01:20:08,220 --> 01:20:13,980 toes had been removed. So I want to ask you something real quick have you ever had a bad week and 889 01:20:13,980 --> 01:20:19,340 you're like oh my god this is the worst week ever. Well they say aye because I want you to listen to 890 01:20:19,340 --> 01:20:23,980 the week old Rose had all right and I'm gonna give you dates I don't mean to bog you down with them 891 01:20:23,980 --> 01:20:29,820 but I just was kind of amused by her week okay check this out. On Sunday April 24th Rose was 892 01:20:29,820 --> 01:20:36,060 arrested with the murder of Linda Goh and that's when she replied I'm innocent. Then on Monday 893 01:20:36,060 --> 01:20:43,260 April 25th she was charged with a murder of Linda Goh. On Tuesday April 26th she was charged with 894 01:20:43,260 --> 01:20:49,020 the murder of Carol Ann Cooper to which she replied I'm innocent. Then on Thursday the 28th she was 895 01:20:49,020 --> 01:20:55,180 charged with a murder of Lucy K. Partington and replied I'm innocent. On Saturday the 30th she was 896 01:20:55,180 --> 01:21:02,460 charged with a murder of Teresa Seagand Thaler and replied I'm innocent. Then on Wednesday may 4th 897 01:21:02,460 --> 01:21:06,620 she was charged with a murder of Shirley Hubbard. This time she didn't make any reply 898 01:21:06,620 --> 01:21:13,900 and then that same day searchers found human remains which were later found to be those of 899 01:21:13,900 --> 01:21:20,860 Charmaine West. She was further charged with the murders of Carol Ann Cooper and Lucy Partington. 900 01:21:20,860 --> 01:21:24,780 What a freaking week right almost every day the week you're charged with a murder. 901 01:21:24,780 --> 01:21:32,380 Ugh what a waste of oxygen that woman was. Now well Freddie he likes right notes it seems because 902 01:21:32,380 --> 01:21:37,980 he again at this time like all these days later he again handed another note to the police and 903 01:21:37,980 --> 01:21:43,660 this is what it said I have not and still cannot tell you the whole truth from the very 904 01:21:43,660 --> 01:21:49,660 first day of this inquiry my main concern has been to protect another person or person so I guess 905 01:21:49,660 --> 01:21:54,700 he's trying to be all strong in mighty head of the household and protect Rose. Well he did a bad 906 01:21:54,700 --> 01:22:00,540 job of it because then on June 3rd Rose was charged with the murder of Juanita Mont to which she 907 01:22:00,540 --> 01:22:07,820 also said I'm innocent by the way. Then on May 11th Fred was charged with the murder of Charmaine West 908 01:22:08,780 --> 01:22:15,340 between May 16th and May 26th Rose was charged with the murder of Juanita Mont Shirley Robinson 909 01:22:15,340 --> 01:22:24,140 Allison Chambers and Heather West. Then on June 2nd 1994 Frederick West appeared in court where 910 01:22:24,140 --> 01:22:28,620 nine murder chargers had now been amended to joint charges with Rose Mary West. 911 01:22:28,620 --> 01:22:35,420 Five days after that court date officers were digging in what was called the finger post field 912 01:22:35,420 --> 01:22:42,140 and they found more remains these remains were identified as Anne Mcfalls. Fred was charged 913 01:22:42,140 --> 01:22:49,420 and then Fred and Rose appeared together in court. Fred was then charged with 11 counts of murder 914 01:22:49,420 --> 01:22:52,940 Rose Mary was charged with nine as well as other sexual offenses. 915 01:22:52,940 --> 01:23:01,500 And then on Friday May 12th of 1995 Rose Mary West attended a pre-trial hearing where she formally 916 01:23:01,500 --> 01:23:08,140 pleaded not guilty. Now there were some changes back and forth as to Fred's legal you know his 917 01:23:08,140 --> 01:23:14,460 defense team so as all of this was being set into motion Fred was still sitting in jail awaiting 918 01:23:14,460 --> 01:23:23,820 his formal day in court that however would never happen. See I want to point out that the complexity 919 01:23:23,820 --> 01:23:30,940 of being a living victim of a parent the way Anne Marie was is shown in the fact that she would still 920 01:23:30,940 --> 01:23:37,820 actually go visit her father even after he had been arrested even after he you know all these 921 01:23:37,820 --> 01:23:45,020 bodies started turning up including hit her sisters her mother and one of the last time she went 922 01:23:45,020 --> 01:23:51,340 to visit him he asked her if she would do him a favor and she asked what it was and he said could 923 01:23:51,340 --> 01:23:56,220 you please stop saying things to the media and instead can you help create me an alibi? 924 01:23:56,940 --> 01:24:05,340 Crayby an alibi for what happened and she told him no dad I'm not gonna do it I can't say that 925 01:24:05,340 --> 01:24:11,180 and I won't do it. So then Fred began to cry right because he's a victim 926 01:24:11,180 --> 01:24:17,340 and Anne Marie reached up and kind of wiped the tears from his face and said dad please don't cry 927 01:24:17,340 --> 01:24:23,420 and you know you didn't do this by yourself you did this with Rose which is kind of sad because 928 01:24:23,420 --> 01:24:28,460 it's like she's trying to justify I don't know the the man she thought he was in some weird way 929 01:24:28,460 --> 01:24:35,660 and he responded her and said I know but then he said you know it don't worry about it never mind 930 01:24:35,660 --> 01:24:41,260 I'll get out of here one way or another and that's when Fred was returned to his cell where on 931 01:24:41,260 --> 01:24:48,300 January 1st 1995 he was found dead in his jail cell his calls of death ruled a suicide by hanging 932 01:24:49,500 --> 01:24:57,820 and this makes me extremely angry not because he didn't you know do his time that's not even why mad 933 01:24:57,820 --> 01:25:04,220 what I feel like is that this was absolute manipulation at its finest to make his surviving 934 01:25:04,220 --> 01:25:12,140 daughter believe that she somehow caused his death she you know and she says I felt horrible I told him 935 01:25:12,140 --> 01:25:15,580 I wouldn't make an alibi I wouldn't do this and that and then he goes back and he kills himself 936 01:25:16,780 --> 01:25:23,660 just a final way of trying to just bring blame on herself and she's lost so much this girl's lost 937 01:25:23,660 --> 01:25:28,940 her sisters she's lost her mother she's lost her father she's lost the stepmother even though 938 01:25:28,940 --> 01:25:33,020 when much of a loss in my opinion but then he's gonna say you know what since you can't make me an alibi 939 01:25:33,020 --> 01:25:36,940 don't worry about it I'll get out of here one way or another and then kills himself and she feels 940 01:25:36,940 --> 01:25:44,460 some sense of remorse for that ridiculous ridiculous for him to do that with a selfish coward you are 941 01:25:44,460 --> 01:25:51,580 you could even face the consequences now he wasn't one to also leave the last word to someone else right 942 01:25:51,580 --> 01:25:57,740 so he did leave a suicide note and was that suicide note for his beloved children who had lost their 943 01:25:57,740 --> 01:26:04,300 lives at his own hands or that had been victimized by him you know was it a letter of sorrow to those 944 01:26:04,300 --> 01:26:09,260 with whom he had killed with his wife and had tortured and raped to death and terrified 945 01:26:09,900 --> 01:26:19,500 of course not why would that be his suicide note his suicide note was a final love letter 946 01:26:19,500 --> 01:26:26,300 to his wife and then it also contained one final horrifying wish and I'm gonna read it to you so 947 01:26:26,300 --> 01:26:32,140 that you can know what his suicide note said verbatim his note read as follows 948 01:26:32,140 --> 01:26:38,460 well rose it's your birthday on November 29th 1994 and you will be 41 949 01:26:39,100 --> 01:26:46,060 and still beautiful and still lovely and I love you we will always be in love the most wonderful 950 01:26:46,060 --> 01:26:53,260 thing in my life was when I met you our love is special to us so love keep your promises to me 951 01:26:53,260 --> 01:27:01,020 you know what they are where we are put together forever and ever is up to you we loved Heather both 952 01:27:01,020 --> 01:27:08,540 of us I would love Charmaine to be with Heather and Reena you will always be Miss West all over the world 953 01:27:08,940 --> 01:27:15,580 that's important to me and to you I haven't got you a present but all I have is my life I will give 954 01:27:15,580 --> 01:27:20,300 it to you my darling when you are ready come to me I will be waiting for you 955 01:27:20,300 --> 01:27:29,980 get the fuck out of here man good riddance underneath the note too he was a drawing of a grave stone with 956 01:27:29,980 --> 01:27:38,140 the words in loving memory Fred West rose west and it said rest in peace where no shadow falls in perfect 957 01:27:38,140 --> 01:27:47,660 peace he waits for rose his wife okay sorry if not touched by your love letter I guess you could 958 01:27:47,660 --> 01:27:54,220 argue it was romantic in a way if it wasn't completely insane that he never mentioned the victims 959 01:27:54,220 --> 01:27:59,100 or is wrongdoing he overshadows the fact that he murdered the very people he wanted to be buried 960 01:27:59,100 --> 01:28:04,460 with and this you know in my opinion is because he wanted to own them he wanted them in his presence 961 01:28:04,460 --> 01:28:12,940 forever and to have final control so Fred's dead and Rose went on trial on October 3rd of 1995 962 01:28:12,940 --> 01:28:19,740 where the jury unanimously found her guilty on 10 separate counts of murder on November 22nd 1995 963 01:28:19,740 --> 01:28:27,500 she was later sentenced to life in prison without parole and Rose refused to accept her fate and she 964 01:28:27,500 --> 01:28:36,780 launched this whole appeal situation in 1996 and in 2000 and her claims were that there was a whole 965 01:28:36,780 --> 01:28:40,780 bunch of new evidence that had come to light that could clear her and then she made the argument 966 01:28:40,780 --> 01:28:47,660 that the the huge media attention had prevented her from receiving a fair trial but in 1996 that 967 01:28:47,660 --> 01:28:51,980 first appeal was rejected and then she dropped them one later on that she had in 2000 and she remains 968 01:28:51,980 --> 01:28:57,740 incarcerated to this day how each of the victims died exactly isn't known and the only two people 969 01:28:57,740 --> 01:29:03,180 who do know took a lot of information to their grave and their prison cell respectively no matter 970 01:29:03,180 --> 01:29:10,060 the exact details the truth is that abuse and torture where the goal and death was the end result 971 01:29:10,060 --> 01:29:16,700 for every person that was abused by them throughout all of the death and the destruction in the 972 01:29:16,700 --> 01:29:22,620 West path I was proud of their daughter Anne Marie for finally standing up to her parents she refused 973 01:29:22,620 --> 01:29:29,420 to bow down to Fred's wants and demands and he killed himself when he was forced to face the consequences 974 01:29:29,420 --> 01:29:36,300 of his own actions what a coward you know he prayed on young girls and he never thought he would 975 01:29:36,300 --> 01:29:43,740 be held accountable for over 20 years the West went undetected in their depravity they never counted 976 01:29:43,740 --> 01:29:50,300 on the child they scared raped and abused staining her ground when it was all said and done 977 01:29:50,300 --> 01:29:56,860 she refused to make an alibi for him and she refused to hide the truth I'm proud of her for that 978 01:29:56,860 --> 01:30:04,220 and for Rose to think that she could get away with her despicable actions sorry honey 979 01:30:04,220 --> 01:30:12,940 it didn't happen and hey I wrote you a little point roses are red and violets are blue I've got five 980 01:30:12,940 --> 01:30:28,940 fingers and the middle ones for you