Obsessed: Zachariah Anderson

0:06 Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real victims, whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real? I use my experiences in law enforcement corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal justice educator, dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are unspeakable. Warning.

0:51 Unspeakable as intended for mature audiences. If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl. Listening discretion is advised. Hey y'all, OKJ you're back for another episode. What's going on with you? Listen? I'm not proud of myself, but I have to tell y'all a story. Now. If you're friends with me in real life, then you're gonna already know this one. But I have got to share it with the listeners because honesty is the best policy. And I just need you to know that my grandmother invited me to the nursing home to her Christmas party. This was last week, and so I went, and I was so happy to be there. I was gonna tear it down. I was gonna roll her around in her wheelchair. We're gonna have a great time. Well, during the time that I was there, I started smelling something that smelled bad, and y'all, I don't like stinky, and so I looked over my grandma. I said, what does that smell? And she looked at me and she said, I why would I know? And I said, well, I don't know, but I keep smelling it when I'm near you. She said it was not mean.

1:44 You better watch your mouth. So I walked away, and then sure enough I smelled it again, so it couldn't have been my grandma. So I look over my kids and I'm like, quit farting on me, y'all, you're ruining my time here. I'm trying to enjoy, you know, my grandma blah blah blah, And so they started fussing at me, saying it wasn't me. Long story short, y'all. I blamed everybody in that nursing home. I started looking at random old ladies and be like, I think it's her, she sinks yo. I got so mad. We left. We got in the car, we started driving home, and I smelled it again, and that's when I started realizing I had done something that I cannot believe I forgot. But I had pockets, you know, on my jacket that I wore, and they were serving us snacks and nobody was eating the broccoli or the carrots. And you know, I said to myself self, your pet squirrel, Joe would love this broccoli. So I wrapped it up and I'd stuck it in my pockets, and that's what I was smelling that. I'm so embarrassed. But I need to apologize to everyone at the nursing home and to my kids, and quite possibly to my husband for blaming them for thinking and it was me with the broccoli in my pocket. So now you know, I forgive me Lord, for I have sinned, and now I have shared that. So we're going to move past. So I hope your day's going better than mine was. And you're nicer than me, because my bad. All right, so let's get started with this one.

3:09 And look, if you have been watching the television, you might actually have been following this case and it really piqued my interest. So that's why I chose a But this is like a new active just just got big in the news case and it's going to be out of Kenosha, Wisconsin, and I think I have some listeners in Wisconsin. So, hey, y'all, this is coming your way. But this case is going to talk about a guy named Rosalio Gutierrez Junior, and he was about forty years old in the lifelong resident of Kenosha, Wisconsin. And he was born on April tenth, nineteen eighty to Celia Ramirez. And from the start, y'all, this guy was unapologetically a mama's boy. And he was raised alone by his mother, and so they had an extremely tight bond. Now, he did have siblings, and his brothers commented on the fact that he had a bad temper when he was little, and they told the story about him being at Wrigley Field when they were a kid and he wanted to go pee, and he wanted to go pee with the big boys, but when they got to the bathroom, he couldn't reach the urinal and so he was in there trying his best to pee in the urinal, and the adults thought it was cute in the bathroom, you know, this little fella trying to do it, and so they started laughing. Well, he turned around and he got mad and he looked at those people and said, what are you looking at? And got all you know, puffed up towards him, but he was just a little bitty guy. And the brother said that all the adults just kind of looked at him, like, oh my gosh, and then they apologized for laughing, but they weren't laughing at him, you know, they were just they thought

4:40 he was cute. And his brother said, calm down, Rambo, and he looked at his brother and he said, that's what I thought. So that's kind of the little guy. He was a little spitfire of a kid. And as he grew up, he would get this nickname by his mom, and his mom would call him Pocho, but his friends would call him Junior. So in nineteen ninety seven, that was when his mother met a man by the name of Eugene Patterson, and that Eugene would eventually marry his mother and that would quickly become his dad. So rosal Leo would actually call him dad, and they loved one another. And Rosalio was a very smart guy. He excelled academically. He attended area schools and he eventually graduated from the University of Wisconsin Parkside, and he had degrees and get this criminal justice and sociology and I was like my guy, right because I feel like, you know, those are what I got my degrees in, and I feel like he and I would have got along really well and would have had a lot to talk about. And he was a driven guy and would go, you know, to work for multiple companies, including he even worked for the state Public defender at one time. But he made a little career change after that and he settled into a job at a plus quality construction and tranquility property group. So his co workers really liked him. They said that he was funny, he made him laugh, he was a hard worker, and over and over again I saw that he was an all around nice guy. And he also was a church loving man and he attended the Great Lakes Church in

6:13 Kenosha now ros Leo. His biggest joy in life, hands down, was his children. So he met Christy Ortez around two thousand and eight and they never got married, but they did produce a child named Julian, and then he had another relationship after that. He met a girl named Kayla and they produced a child named Ava. And while their relationships ended, and I really liked this about both baby mama's I guess they said that he made a point to maintain healthy relationships with his children and their mothers, so there really weren't big complaints about him being a father. It mattered to him to be a good dad, but also to show his you know, his children's mother's respect, because he knew that that was rub off on his children. So he was a lucky guy too, and that he got one of each, right, a boy and a girl. Julian was a male and Ava obviously a female, and he absolutely loved being their dad. And recently he had co coached his son's little league team and he just ate up every minute of it.

7:19 He loved being a part of his children's lives and he would jump at any opportunity he could to be with them and to help with their sports. He even, I think this is kind of cute. He even was a big supporter of little Ava and he would go to her gymnastics competitions and be a proud supporter of her, even at her ballet concerts. He was like, right, he was rooting her on, and he loved those babies. Now, Rosalio himself loved any and all sports. He loved it. He would look at any competition and I'm like that too, so I really can identify with that. I love sports. I don't care what it is. We could re race in marbles. Hey, I remember during COVID when we couldn't do anything or go anywhere. I remember watching marble races on my phone, like where you put him on a track, and I was like, what has what does the world come to that I'm watching this? But I needed some competition and I would root for that red marble y'all every time.

8:11 But Rosalio his favorite teams were the Chicago Cubs. He loved the Bears, and he loved the Blackhawks. And he was a very outdoorsy type of guy and if he could be outside in the sunshine, that's where Rosalio wanted to be. He loved listening to music, and it didn't matter to him what type of music it was. He just liked to be out listening to music, dancing and having a good time. And people who were friends with him told you that he was absolutely full of life and he had so much to offer the world. And this wasn't like that thing where you know when everybody dies and they're in a movie and they're like, oh, they lit up a room and they had so much tenacity. No. I went and looked at photos and of videos that people had posted online, and this guy really was living it up, and he really was fun. He was optimistic, and I think that's so attractive in a person. That he looked for the best in people, and he looked for the best in situations. And friends would say that he was that friend. If you needed something, he would stop what he was doing. He would immediately drop whatever he was doing and he would show up. And he was a good friend. And something that he was blessed with was that he in return had good friends back for him now. His mom referred to him as a good son who was always there for her, and she said that their bond was extremely strong and that their love for one another was just unconditional. They were very, very tight, and considering the fact that Rosalio was a responsible man and he was not one

9:41 to stay out of touch with his family, it was really odd to them and to his friends that they were unable to get in touch with him in the middle of twenty twenty. His mother says she last physically saw him in February of twenty twenty, when she brought him a truck that he could use to go back and forth from work. But the last time that she spoke to him was on the phone on May sixteenth of twenty twenty, and having that gut feeling that mama's get, she just had that gut feeling that something was wrong. So Rosalio's mom and her husband jumped in their vehicle and they traveled to Kenosha to look for him, and they got there on May twentieth of twenty twenty. Now, when they were walking up, he lived in an apartment complex known as Wood Creek Apartments. When they were walking up to the Wood Creek Apartments, they noticed that the truck she had brought him was still parked there, and he didn't have any other means of transportation. So the fact that he wasn't answering any phone calls or texts and then the truck is still there, as you can imagine, that kind of made their hearts sink as they walked up. The car was parked right there in the parking lot. And if he wasn't home, then why would the truck be there.

10:52 But look, that doesn't always mean something that you know, did he leave with someone else and maybe he forgot to call. Well, no, no freaking way. Everyone that knew him said, that's not the case. He doesn't forget to call. He certainly didn't forget to call his mama. That just wasn't Rosalio, and he certainly wasn't going to miss any of the appointments that he had where he recently was a no show in the last two days. So on that on May nineteenth, the day before the parents showed up, Rosalio was reported as missing to the police, and doing their due diligence, Kenosha Police conducted a welfare check to the Wood Creek apartments where Rosalio lived, and it turns out that Rosalio had been seeing a woman named Sadie Beacham about this same time. She too was very concerned, having not been able to get in touch with him for two days. So the time frame between when the mom last spoke to him, when Sadie Beacham last spoke to him, and his friends last spoke to him was all kind of lining up.

11:52 Specifically, Rosalio called Sadie his girlfriend about eight thirty pm that last day that they all had spoken to him, and she missed his call, and then he texted her at eight thirty six pm. This is going to be on May the seventeenth, so back a couple of days. But she missed that text message, and then she kept trying to get him and couldn't get him. She tried him again on the eighteenth, but she didn't get him. And understand, this was a relationship where they were in communication several times a day, and now all of a sudden, there's absolutely no communication from him. So on the nineteenth in the morning, there's still no communication from him, so she too jumps in her car and she drives from the Milwaukee area to Kenosha to see what's going on, and wondering the whole time if something's happened to him. And when she gets to that apartment, she goes around and she finds that the sliding door to his apartment he lives on a bottom floor, is open, and that strikes her as pretty off. So, like I said, Rossilio Gutierrez has that apartment on the bottom floor and the slide door faces right to the road, so the sliding door is open, but she notices that the screen door is still still shut. So she walks up and she gets closer to the screen and she's going to kind of peer in through the mesh of that screen when she is horrified to see a

13:24 massive amount of blood as she peers through that screen and it's all over the apartment from where she is standing. She is stunned at the amount of blood that she sees, so she immediately dials nine to one one and she is still at the scene when the police arrive. So Detective Lorn and Shoots responded to Gutierra's residence on May nineteenth, twenty twenty, and they describe Sadie as being completely distraught. He says she's shaking and she is literally overcome with emotion with what she has seen. So what do I mean by blood all over the apartment? I did some research on this and I even pulled some reports that were turned in by police, and I'm gonna post those on my Patreon for you to go look at if you'd like to. But what I mean by all over the apartment is literally all over the interior of the apartment.

14:22 When the police arrived and they entered the scene, they noticed first of all that there was blood covering the main rug area in the living room. Blood was on the walls, it was on the tables, it extended down to the dining room table. Walking further into the apartment, the blood continued to the chairs. It even hits a laptop which was further down in the apartment. There was also blood on the kitchen counter, and then it had even dripped and pulled in some areas. I mean, this was an incredible amount of loss of blood, and from what it looked like, it was very improbable that someone could lose that much blood and be alive. It's a ton of blood now as they're walking through and they're looking. When you first entered the entrance of the apartment, police found a small stick of wood and they described it as looking like a sliver from maybe a baseball bat or some other hard wood object. But it also was splattered with blood, and it even had tufts of hair stuck to it. And there was a significant amount of blood on the curtains, which are on the entire other end of the apartment from the entrance where they first came in. So I'm trying to paint you a picture here that it wasn't like there was blood in one corner, like someone got cracked with a baseball bat. This was a fight for his ever

15:54 loving life. Assuming that was his blood all over the apartment. It extends the whole apartment, every room and looking up, detectives even are struck to notice there's blood on the ceilings. There was blood dripping from the ceiling, fans, it's everywhere. Walking through the apartment, they found blood in the ceiling in multiple rooms of the apartment. So this should be painting a picture in your head that this guy's fighting off whatever's happening to him, and he's running room to room getting just beaten, just animalistically beaten, and blood is everywhere. There was more pulled blood that had seeped into the carpet in the living room, on the floor area, and there was even a significant quantity of seeped blood into the couch, which was that main couch into the living room. Strangely enough, though, there's one area that's missing blood completely, and it's really obvious that there's blood all around this rectangular area, but there's no blood whatsoever where that rectangular area is. I mean, it was actually described as pristine. Everywhere was covered in blood except this one square area that common sense would tell you you should immediately ascertain that this had been some you know, a medium to large sized rug, and there was significant bleeding that

17:27 was happening when the rug was there, but now the rug was gone. So come on, y'all, you're not new to this. This is not your first rodeo. There's blood all over a house and there's a missing rug. What do you think happened? Did they go on a rug rolling contest outside? No, I don't think so either. Something happened to somebody, and I think they got rolled up in that rug, And I think that that's a pretty decent assumption to make. So as crime scene technicians process the scene, they find more little splinters of wood near the couch that are also there, and interspersed in the blood and in the hair that's all over the couch, and the location in the size of the blood in the multiple areas of the apartment indicated that it was a spraying type of blood, meaning that there was impact in multiple locations on multiple you know, given times. It wasn't like it was one strike and then someone was bleeding out. And this type of bleeding I was gonna kind of explain to you it was called arterial spray. And that's where there's kind of a finer mist as well that comes out, and arterial spray is a characteristic blood stained pattern containing spurts that result in blood you know, existing under pressure and from arterial injury. So basically blood is propelled out of the cut cut blood vessel by the pumping of the heart and it's typical for that pattern to form like an arc. Okay,

19:00 So basically every time the heart pumps, and that's my pen hitting my chest. But every time the heart pumps, then you're gonna get a new spray pattern that's made. And so it kind of looks like, you know, whoosh and then a new whoosh across the wall. Now there's a misconception, and this drives me crazy, but there's a misconception that blood spatter tells the whole story. So like if you watch a television drama, they're going to point out that, you know, a bloodstained analyst is gonna come in and they're gonna tell the investigators everything that occurred, and that's just not how it works. The pattern can tell these analysts with reasonable certainty what happened in specific moments that correspond to a stain, but they cannot tell you the whole story of what happened. In some cases, the bloodstains are too few or the volume of blood is just too great for analysts to reasonably render any opinion on the causes of the stains. They just know that the blood's there, and it should be in the body, not where it is, So, you know, the movies kind of get that wrong. But whatever happened in this apartment, it was clearly not an accident, and it occurred over time as Rosalio moved through the apartment fending off his attacker. And the scene looked to have been made by a multitude of violence. I mean everything from blunt force trauma to a sharp penetrating wound from something like a knife. Now, there was no weapon found at the scene, but it was believed based on what they saw, it was likely, you know, he was probably mortally wounded

20:32 based on the amount of blood and the totality of the circumstance when they were viewing the scene. And while the blood evidence may have been great in amount, there was one glaring issue, and that's that police searched the entire apartment and the outside area of the apartment and Rosa, you know, Rosalio Gutierrez was nowhere to be found. Based on the condition of what is assumed to be his body, it's not likely that he could have gotten far on his own either. I mean, he's lost so much blood he would have been weak by the time he got to the front door, so it's not like he ran out. There was no blood trail outside of the apartment. There was no footprints. But this was looking a whole lot like murder. But without a body, investigators, they can't be certain. They don't know where he is. So Rosalio's keys were also at the apartment, and they also found his wallet, but his wallet had ended up on the couch over some areas that already had blood, and so while again this is circumstantial evidence in nature, it was obvious that it had been placed there after the bleeding occurred.

21:40 And it doesn't really make much sense for someone who's bleeding out to give their license to someone, right or a credit card, But why would you leave everything there. Another strange event was that a few days after Rosalio went missing in his freezer, his phone and all of his credit cards were found by his mother behind everything in his freezer, hidden there in the cold. So the only reason they found the phone is because it randomly went off and she found it in the freezer. They did a search. The police did a search of Rosalia's bank records, and that would be concerning as well, because there was no further transactions that had occurred after May seventeenth. This tells you one thing. We may not know where his body is, but we know that this wasn't a robbery because nothing of financial gain had been taken or used. So investigators turned their attention to his new girlfriend, Sadie Beecham.

22:41 Was this a strong relationship? How long had there been an item? Police really wanted to investigate what was going on here, and so Sadie told investigators that on February seventeenth of twenty twenty, she had gotten on a dating site and that's where she first had laid eyes on Rosolio. To what she saw, and after meeting him, she thought maybe this really could go somewhere. They met up and she just really thought he was great. He seemed to love his kids and to have a good relationship with them, and this really mattered to her because she had her own children. Sadie had three, to be exact, and she believed that being a parent was one of the most important jobs there is. While their relationship was blossoming, she wasn't quite ready though, to share this with any of her children, and specifically she had an eleven year old daughter at the time, and she just wasn't ready to share this relationship. It was too new. She liked it, but it was just too new. They'd been together only a couple of months, but Sadie was smitten and saying this was not a typical dating experience. She said in a text message, it was literally a breath of fresh air being with him. So she detailed their relationship as fa time calls and dinners at home or take out by the lake. They liked to watch movies, they would make tacos and drink mohidos and singing and dancing in the living room and just sharing stories of their friends and family. She had really good things to say

24:15 about this relationship. There was nothing really negative that she brought up. And what investigators were concerned with, though, is how focused she was on getting her own kids to safety. So you know, she had walked in and found the apartment in a wreck and blood everywhere, and she was nearly inconsolable with fear. But she was scared that something was going to happen to her own children. But why would she be so afraid of them? You know, if if something had happened to Rosalio, what would be the link between the apparent attack of Hilm and her own children? But there was one, and it was a legitimate one. See, Sadie had just exited a tumultuous, long term relationship with a man named Zachariah Anderson who went by Zach, and she was convinced that he must have had something to do with this, and that her kids might not be safe either. So she immediately prioritizes securing her own children's safety, and the police allow her to do that because they don't know the legitimacy of her fears in that moment, and they don't want to, you know, stop her, even though it just you know, Okay, you're scared because of your ex But I mean, really, why would you think your own kids are going to be in trouble? But who was Zach? I thought I would tell you a little bit about him.

25:33 Zach was the eldest of nine total children who maintained a close relationship with each other. And Zach while there's nine children. It's really kind of a mixed bunch of kids through divorces and marriages and all of that, but there's nine siblings. And Zach graduated from Port Washington High School and then he went on to receive an associate's degree from Milwaukee Area Technical College. And during a portion of high schoo he moved to Texas to try to live with his mom because there was some you know, separations and divorces and whatnot. But eventually he hitchhiked his way back to Wisconsin. And I don't know why, but that kind of struck me because you're a high school kid and you're hitchhiking your way back home. I don't know, seems like a risky type of behavior.

26:22 And he was kind of described as a bit of a transient at times. He moved about. He lived in Colorado and in California, but to him, if you ask him, Wisconsin is always going to be declared as his home. And throughout the years, Zach held a variety of jobs as well. He waited tables, he painted bridges and overpasses, he worked construction, and he also worked for many years for AT and T in a variety of capacities but at the time of this case, he was working as an audio visual maintenance technician for Milwaukee Area Technical College and he did demo or construction jobs on the side. So it kind of seemed to me like Rosalio was more of an intellectual type guy and Zach was kind of a blue collar, hands on type of fella. So kind of different, different ways of doing things.

27:15 But Sadie and Zach had gotten together and they lived together on a regular basis. Over time, they would have three children together. In two thousand and eight, they had their daughter, who was only identified by initials OA. I think her name's Olivia because in some other stuff I read, a child was referred to as live, but you know, for her privacy, we'll leave it at OA. And then that after she was born, she was followed by twin boys in twenty fifteen, and their initials are Ina, and I would guess Nathan and Michael. I don't know why, but I don't know these kids' names, but if we want to call them Na and m A or nine MA, that's all I can give you right now.

27:56 And what started as a decent relationship with eventually burn out over time. Sadie would describe their relationship as one where Zach came and went as he pleased. He didn't pay for living expenses, he didn't help with the expenses of the children on any type of regular basis, and it was very frustrating to her. Sometimes he showed up on the weekends, and when he would show up, she said, he fully expected and anticipated that they were going to be in their relationship and he wanted to reap the benefits thereof, if you know what I mean. So he was kind of half assed in a relationship with her, but whole ass wanted a piece of ass when he showed up.

28:37 And Sadie would come to the point where she was like, enough is enough, Okay, I'm not doing this anymore. I've children have priorities. You come and go and you think that you kind of rule the roost even though you're not here, and you don't really participate or support us. I'm done, And so she would break up with Zach. But Zach would be under the impression that he would do what he always did in years. He would show up, beg for forgiveness, and he would just be able to smooth things over. But this time it didn't happen, and he kind of found himself in unchartered territory because for years he had been in control and could kind of manipulate and get this relationship to do what he wanted. But now, y'all, it was officially over. Sadie was done and being the decent parent that she was, although she hadn't spoken for a few weeks to Zach after they broke up, slowly but surely, she wanted to have him be able to have the visits with his kids, and she was willing to oblige that.

29:37 Zach, though, would use this whole idea of being with his kids and being back in touch with her on a regular basis. He would use that kind of as his attempts to get back together with her continuously. But this wasn't going to happen. She had just taken the high road and she was trying to be nice with him, but he still was texting and and begging and playing the victim and you know, giving gifts that she did not want. When I tell you she was done, she was done. She decides that she does not want to share this new relationship with Rosalio with Zach because she knows him too well by this point, and she knows that he will easily become overwhelmed with jealousy. And she also knows that Zach has the propensity to be irrational when he feels like he's not in complete control of his life. And I don't know if you've ever met someone like this, but I have, and it can get to be a lot when someone feels like they are losing control when they believe in their mind that they deserve and require control over another person. So learning all of this about Zach, investigators further asked Sadie when was the last time you physically saw Rosalo, And she explains that on May sixteenth, she got a communication from him asking if she would like to meet his kids since they were at his house for the weekend on the fifteenth and the sixteenth, and this was the first time that she had been asked to meet his kids. And they went for ice cream and this

31:08 was just huge to her because she said that she was extremely excited and she felt like this was extremely meaningful. It was a huge moment in her life because if he was going to let her meet his kids, then he must have felt like she was worthy of a long term relationship with him now. She did not spend the night that night, and she went home when it was over, but it would be the very last time that she ever saw Rosalio alive in person. She knew that they were not in an exclusive relationship yet, but she felt like this relationship was going to build. They just had too much in common. And this information was a particular interest to investigators in that their main focus at the time was where is Rosalio? But also who would have the motive to hurt him? Sex, jealousy, y'all.

32:00 I've said it a billion times. They're very strong motives combined with a person who has an obsession for control, and so police felt, look, we may not know everything, but we do have a lead here, and so they wanted to go further with that lead. Sadie had even texted Zach right. She had messages between her and Zach where he is acting like he's gonna be helpful and I don't mean about Rosa Leo, I mean in general. Right, he gives messages to her like I'll keep the kids, but then he says, so you don't have to sneak someone in the house and our kids won't hear you calling your new boothing babe, and then she was clapping back at him like, geez, you know, WTF, what is your deal? It's none of your business. You had your chance with me, you blew it. You've had years to be a man that I needed and you're not. And if I have a serious new relationship, I have no problem telling you. She then complains to him in those same messages, Look, you need to stop probing our children about this as well, she says.

33:02 It's creepy and it's inappropriate. So they had been arguing already about the fact that he was still trying to get information from their kids, which they have, you know, the little twin boys, But that eleven to twelve year old daughter during the timeframe of this was really being used for more than just love and affection by her father. He responds with her to that text message, Oh, I was just trying to help you. Yeah, frickin' right, bro. Way to flip that as if you're the one who's being attacked. It's just to me, a very very clear attempt at manipulation, flipping the script, making you feel like you're the bad guy just because you try to check someone who's being snied, right, so you don't have to sneak people in with our children there, Like who says she would do that anyway? You know. So the police did some investigating of Rossa Leo's phone records to see if they could narrow down when was the last time that he physically spoke to someone on record, and Rosalio's phone records showed he dropped his kids off because he had them that weekend that he went missing. He dropped them off on the seventeenth, and then it's believed he went home, arriving around nine oh eight, and based on some of the items that were left at the crime scene. And if you, you know, you read the crime scene, like I've said before, and look at the photographs, you know, it would seem like he got home, he sat down his stuff, and then he went and he cracked open a beer and he drank it,

34:32 and then when he finished that one, he opened another one while he was watching TV and waiting for a woman named Nareda. I think that's how you would say it. I guess it's Nareda if you were going to like say it with an accent, But I'm not inclined with an accent. So Nareda is what it sounds like in South Louisiana. Her records would confirm that she texted him at nine to twenty seven pm on the seventeenth, and then she texted him back because she arrived at a building she thought was his, but it turns out she was at the wrong building, but she thought she was at his building. So she calls him, and she texts him a couple of times over the next half hour, asking him things like, Hey, where are you are you coming out? And there's never an answer, and y'all, they had been talking the whole time, like where he lives.

35:27 He even said something like I promised to you I'm not a creeper, because she was like, I don't know if I should come to your apartment. So it seemed to me like he was building the relationship. And I could be wrong, but it seemed to me from what I was researching, that he was building a relationship with Sadie. But he hadn't. They weren't exclusive yet, so he was still kind of dating and he had met this woman and she was just gonna come over just to meet. And I remember when I was reading some of the text messages him saying, hey, what do you want to drink? You know, I've got beer, I got tequila, whatever, And she's like, no, I don't want to get a DWI and he's like, oh, no problem, I have juice and milk and water too. You can have whatever you want. He just seemed like a really accommodating, a nice guy, but once she got to that apartment complex, he wasn't answering her. The last time Rosalia's phone is in any way, shape or form on was around ten thirty PM on the seventeenth, And like I said, I've seen these messages, and I actually have some photos of their messages going back and forth, and so I'm going to post those on my Patreon for my members so you can go look at them, because it's strange being able to see someone's final communication and then it just abruptly stop, and then someone's like, where are you? What do you do? You know? Why won't you come outside? Something is going on during that timeframe, and whatever it is is deadly, and that woman is outside of a nearby complex trying to get in touch with them the whole time.

36:45 Ross Leo also kept a planner, and it was noted that he was planning to be at a camp called Camp Timberly and it's a local summer camp. He was supposed to go there with his kids on May nineteenth, just two days after this crime scene was found, and he never arrived at camp. He was never accounted for during that timeframe, so police checked with the kids, and the kids talked his children. They talked to him all the time. They saw him every week. They were in contact with him multiple times a week. He was a good daddy. But after May seventeenth, there was never another split second of communication between he and his children. This is building a circumstantial case at best right now, but it's it's definitely alarming.

37:31 So one day after the bloody apartment was discovered, that detective on Shoots went to pay ex boyfriend Zach Right, Sadie's ex boyfriend Anderson a visit at his residence, and this would have been on May twentieth, twenty twenty. Now, before he gets there, though, Rosalio's friends have already decided they want answers. Remember I told you he was a good friend, and when he was not answering his friends sex messages, they were going to go figure out why, because it turns out Rosalio had told a couple of his close buddies that he had this new woman that he was seeing and he was very interested in her. Her name was Sadie, but she's got a crazy ex boyfriend and he believed the guy even broke into his truck one time. Now here's the breakdown of that real quick. A few months ago, before this this case was taking place, Sadie invited Rosalio over to her home and in the middle of the night, her doorbell rang and she looked up when the doorbell rang, and she saw a vehicle that she said looked a whole lot like Zach's. The ex boyfriends squealing away from the house. Now, she didn't have the children, right, the children were gone, and that's why she had invited Rosalio over. And later when she and Rosalio go outside, they find that his truck had been broken into, and a letter had been taken from the truck, as well as Rosalio's registration or or this paper that had his information on it that was also signed by his stepfather, who had

39:06 signed for the truck, if you're following me, And so the question was, why in the hell would someone break into your truck, and then why would they take your registration? Like what a dumb thing to take from a vehicle. So when Rosalio goes missing, that's when his bestie, his name was Michael Campbell, is the type of friend who's gonna go pound the pavement and go ask some questions. He's not gonna wait around, and so he goes straight to the house of the person that he suspects and his mind is responsible for this, and he goes up and he confronts him. And who exactly did Michael and his friends go confront It was Zach, that ex boyfriend, and they explained to him, look, Rosalio's missing. Do you know anything about this, because you're the only one that's seemed to have a problem with him recently, And he even mentioned it well, acting like a total douchebag coward. And I don't know that there's any other word for this, Zach. Rather than say and I don't know what you're talking about, or get out of my face or whatever, he doesn't even do that. Zach claims that he's his own brother. Zach's like, you got the wrong guy.

40:19 You think that this I'm Zach. I'm actually Zack's brother, and it wasn't like they were trying to fight him or anything. I'm sure they were a little, uh, you know, upset, but they weren't trying to fight him or anything. They were just trying to ask him the question of do you know where he is? But it becomes readily clear that Zach Aka has faked you know, his brother isn't going to answer their questions, so instead they leave. But by that point, Zach goes and calls the police. Right he's the victim here, he's being harassed, and the police show up, but by that point, the friends aren't there. When the police show up, he Zach lives in a northern suburb of Milwaukee. Police respond, but they have some questions with regard to the claim that Sadie has made about Zach possibly going through Rosalio's truck while they were at her house, and they had acquired further information about Zach's stalker tendencies from his own daughter. Now, considering that this is a current case that's just been you know, kind of finalized in the last week or two since when I'm recording this, the authorities have kept his daughter's identity anonymous, but they did ask this little girl questions. And I'm just perturbed by this whole situation because this is a little girl, y'all. She's eleven tern twelve while this is all going on,

41:51 and she is more aware and has more information than I think any child should have post parental breakup about what her parents are doing. It's none of their concern, it's none of your child's concern. You know who they're dating and all of that. In the very beginnings of it, I feel like the mom, Sadie, was trying to protect her kids. She didn't want to introduce them to someone that may not stick around, and instead, this daughter knows a whole lot, even though Sadie the mom had not shared anything with her. Okay, so authorities kind of questioned the daughter and she comes out and says, well, yeah, I mean I know about Rose a Leo.

42:34 Matter of fact, my dad asked me to spy on my mom and that included wanting her to film her the mother, and he specifically asked his daughter, look, I need you to film your mom every time that she gets upset and angry. I want you to turn that phone on it and I want you to record it. And this fear infuriates me that you're trying to now weaponize a child against their parent. On anyone who does that, Absolute shame on anyone who would weaponize a child. You know, kids don't ask to be here, so when you start pinning them or pitting them against their own parent, that's disgusting. But she goes on further, and she says that her dad even was using racial slurs against Rosalio in front of her.

43:21 And that's how the dad referred to Rosalio in front of his children, was through a racial slur, which I'm not going to say here. He even told his own daughter that he would follow Rosalio home one time, just for fun, just to you know, just to kind of freak him out. I guess he was telling the daughter, I think I may follow him home and show him who the man is. Now, this could just be big talk, right, but it's kind of concerning. When someone's blood is all over their apartment they're missing, kind of makes you go hmm. So, when asked how often this had occurred, his daughter told him investigators that her father would discuss her mother's boyfriend with her. And this is direct quote frequently. Now, this is just talk like I said, it doesn't constitute anything more than that, and it's not necessarily stalking. But the daughter then added a bit more of information. The daughter specifically said that on the night of April twenty fourth to April twenty fifth, her father drove them to her mother's house to have her spy on her mother. But he got out and he went and they spied through a window and watched the two of them as they sat on a couch. That is so freaking creepy. And while there she told her she told the police that her dad jumped on the porch,

44:52 he looked through the window at her mom, and he had through a camera. And then she added that he took some pictures of the license plate of Rosolio's truck, and then he rifled through it a bit before he quickly rang the doorbell and then jumped in his vehicle and they drove off. Well, this isn't a you know, this is what we and the BIZ would call a clue, because remember she even said the doorbell went off in the middle of the night, and I swear I thought I saw Zach's truck there, and then lo and behold, he had gone through the truck and the registration is missing, so stalking. And you know, I like to give you official sources here, so if you want to go look it up, you can know that I'm not just some talking head making stuff up. Stalking, according to VictimConnect dot org, is defined as a course of conduct directed at a specific person that would cause a reasonable person to feel fear. And I think the key here is that it would cause a reasonable person to feel fear.

45:51 It is scary to me to think that someone would be watching me without me knowing. And I'll tell you a personal story I don't normally, but I'll share it with you because why not. If we're all going to learn from one another, let's use our experiences. I dated a guy one time before my beautiful, precious husband, and he was not a very nice guy. Matter of fact, he reminds me of this fella right here. But I remember one time I fell asleep and didn't hear my phone ringing because it was on silent, And when I woke up, I had hundreds of missed phone calls. I didn't even know your phone would log that my voicemail was maxed out, and one of the voicemails said that if I didn't open the door and come outside, he would be waiting in the woods and he was going to beat my brains in with a baseball bat. Quote end quote.

46:37 So when it says it would cause a reasonable person to feel fear, I know what it feels like. That's all I'll tell you. But unlike other crimes that involve a single incident, right like a shooting or something like that, stalking is a pattern of behavior, and it's often made up of individual acts that by themselves might seem harmless, but when you put it together and you take it into the entire context of what's going on, it constitutes a criminal act. So when you choose to weaponize your own children against their own mother, this would fall into that pattern just described. Stalking involves more than just following someone, which is kind of what the movies make it. And I want this to be a learning lesson for people, not because you're taking a test on it, but because I want you to understand the behaviors, because if you've never had it happen to you, I think sometimes it's hard to pinpoint it. But this list I'm gonna give you certainly isn't exhaustive.

47:32 But here are some recognized stalking behaviors that together pose an issue. So repeatedly calling your phone, including calling and hanging up, when people follow you, when they send unwanted gifts, letters, text messages, emails, They damage your home or your car or your property. That same person I'm speaking of, I came home to my house one day and found all sorts of destroyed items cut up on my porch and they weren't even my eye So that was creepy too. Monitors your phone calls or your computer, possibly through spywear. They threatened to hurt you. They perform other actions that to try to control or track or fighten you or frighten you. So I remember getting voicemails and calls too from this same person telling me what I was wearing while I was at work. Tell me, that's not to try to intimidate you, to let you know that there's eyes on you. So obviously Zach was dabbling in some of these behaviors, and he also had previously admitted to Sadie that he was jealous. He would also later admit that to law enforcement, and he he would admit, look, I did take my daughter, as I mentioned.

48:42 You know, to the mom's house, and he said he has a recording of that incident on his phone. And law enforcement certainly wants to focus on the person who has documented motive and jealousy. So let's focus on two of those stalking behaviors. I just want you to, you know, just listen when someone's monitoring you through technology and tracking you through GPS. This was done Sadie didn't know it at first, but monitoring his x through technology was done through his daughter at his request. But Sadie had also more evidence that he was doing even more. Matter of fact, she had contacted the Germantown Police Department back in twenty nineteen with concerns about these stalking behaviors, but the police told her, and this is true to an extent, that they were not able to do much unless he was caught in the act. And is it's really hard to prove it, and a lot of times, y'all, it's too late once you're able to prove it. But y'all, if a crime hasn't occurred, and you can't prove that a crime has occurred, what are the police going to do? And I know right now on your head, you're probably yelling at me, But I'm telling you, if you look at the facts, if you look at how policing has to be done, just because someone says it's happening with no proof, you can't just go infringe upon someone's life. Doesn't seem fair to the victim in this case, but it's the truth. She had actually filed for a restraining order against Zach after

50:14 he physically attacked her in front of their children, and this was in December of twenty nineteen. According to Zach's own family, Sadie and Zach had been in a verbal altercation regarding their children at Sadie's home, and Zach was given a municipal citation for disorderly conduct and Sadie requested a seventy two hour no contact period, which was granted by the judge. So it was serious enough that the judge was like, I don't think y'all need to be around each other. So if you fast forward now to April of twenty twenty, Sadie is extremely upset to find that her daughter had a cell phone that she didn't know about. Sadie looks in the phone and she discovers that this is Zach's doing, and she knew it was Zach's doing because Zach had multiple phones, and she knew that because he would text her from multiple phones, making it really confusing. He had one that he used primarily, but he had a couple of other phones, and one in particular he was using to record her.

51:12 So Sadie looks into this Amazon account that she can see on the phone, and she sees that Zach has ordered two tracking devices from Amazon. And when she looks further into it, they're auto tracking devices that you attached to a vehicle and their voice activated, so they have a dual purpose basically for spying missions. Right, Sadie was already upset about her daughter's recording her when she got upset, and now this is an absolute invasion of her privacy. So on May eighth, Sadie again does not have the children, and so she's going to go to Rosalio's home and based on her suspicions of what had been occurring in the last few weeks and what I just told you about her daughter, and then you know, her doorbell had been wrong and she thought it was Zach. They thought he broke into the car. She also found out that her daughter was recording her, she says, you know what, I think he's probably tracking me, So being hyper vigilant, before she goes to his home, she searches her car and lo and behold, if she doesn't find a hidden tracking device in her car, we are now at a new level. Okay, But where she finds it is what is most disgusting to me. She finds it hidden under the car seat of one of her twins, all right, but this is going to be important where she finds it.

52:37 So when she drives to Kenosha to meet with Rosalio, she had turned that phone off and she confronts Zach about the finding, and in the most ridiculous lie ever, he says, oh, well, I must have you know, I lost that phone. It must have fallen out of my pocket when I was working on one of the car seats for the twins, like he was putting the car in, and it must have just fallen in there. So I want to tell you something about these types of lies. When a narcissist, which he is, is confronted with a lie, they will create what is instantly called plausible deniability, so that doubt is cast on the very evidence that's laid out before them, so within seconds, if you're around a true narcissist, they can spin a story to cover a story that covers a story intentionally confusing their partner or the person that they're trying to control, and the person who has gone to great pains to present evidence to the bad guy or to someone they think is doing something. They're able to put that little bit of plausible deniability in there, and it's amazing how good they are at it, and you fall for it, and people fall for it and accept the lie, and they end up getting a free pass for it.

53:57 And the reason people accept the lie, y'all, it's not because they're stupid. It's because it's extremely hard for someone who is normal and not manipulative and vindictive. It's hard for them to fathom thinking in the capacity that the narcissist is thinking, and so people choose instead to sort of believe the lie because it's easier. It's easier to believe the lie and to let it go than to imagine that someone is really as scary and has done something as terrible as you think. We basically will bargain with logic. So Sadie, though she was right about this phone Zach was using that phone. He had an app that he had just downloaded on it, which was to Find My Phone app, and he was tracking her that very day, and so everything he was telling her was simply untrue. Every time she brings it up, though, he acts like she's crazy, and he is fundamentally just dishonest with her and acts like everything that she's bringing up is in her head or they can be plausibly denied as accidents. His reactions to this are a dead ringer for narcissistic behavior. And based on everything I've mentioned so far, we all should be able to agree that Zach becomes more irrational every time he's not getting his way or he loses control of what she's doing Sadie's doing, and it looks like it's building. Each new move he makes is more and more disturbing. So

55:31 even their daughter, right when she was questioned by police, tells law enforcement I am his spy, and they ask why did you do it? And she said, well, to make Daddy happy, that's what he wanted me to do. She says there's a plan that he described to her as well, and that his daughter needed to be prepared to implement it at whenever he needed her to do it. So they're like, Okay, explain to me what is this plan he had, and the daughter says, well, Daddy says that he is going to bring me and my two siblings, the twins. We're gonna be at his house because it's going to be his weekend for a visit. And if I know that my mama is supposed to go visit over at Rosolio's home, his plan is that I need to tell him and then he's going to drive us back to mama's house, which of course she won't be there because she's gone to Rosalio's. And then the little girl was told she it was very important that she leaves a key so that he can get it when the mom's not there and so that they can get in the house. And then she's to take herself and her little siblings, her two siblings into the house. And then when she gets in the house, she has to call her dad's phone and tell her dad that they're there and that they've made it into the home. And then Zach was going to make a phone call to the police department and say, hey, my wife, I drop my kids off to the house and my wife has abandoned them and left them alone, and then the kids would be able to verify that because they would show up and the kids would have no one supervising them. Four year old and an eleven year old. This is sick. It's getting deep,

57:05 right. And so while he was doing all of these manipulative things behind her back, he's acting a little bit different to Sadie's face. He played the woe is me part. He would tell her how hurt he was and that he was wanting to get back together. And he even kept calling her Sadie Bear, which was his nickname for her when they were together. She did not want to be Sadie Bear now, but he still referred to her as that, and he would tell her how much he loved her, no matter how much she refused the advances, and then would respond angrily when she did not accept those advances and then become more vindictive. So Zach even enlisted his daughter further, which we find out, to go through her mother's phone and then report back anything she read or saw to him. So police assessed the totality of this circumstance so far, and based on the proof that they were able to obtain on May twenty. First of twenty twenty, Zach Anderson was arrested not for the Missis seeing roso Leo, but for stalking of his ex Sadie. Now, listen, there's a lot more to this story and I cannot possibly complete it in this one episode will be here for a week, Okay, So I'm gonna complete this and conclude it in the next episode that I do. Until then, though, I want you to ask yourself this, how many narcissists does it take to unscrew a light bulb? Well, I can tell you the answer. It's none, because they only use gas lighting.