Transcript
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Welcome to Unspeakable, a true crime podcast where I tell stories of real crimes with real
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victims whose cases are so shocking that many are left wondering how is this even real?
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I use my experiences in law enforcement, corrections, and combined with my years as a criminal
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justice educator dig deep into complex cases of evil acts, some so evil many feel they are
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unspeakable.
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Warning, unspeakable is intended for mature audiences.
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If you are easily offended, then I'm not your girl.
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Listing discretion is advised.
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Hey y'all, Kelly Jiddings here back for another episode of Unspeakable.
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Let's go and on.
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I'm recording on a Sunday.
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Thank God for DVRs.
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I'm recording my Saints game because I gotta give the people what they want and I gotta
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give it to them all in time.
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So we got a new episode today, but before I do that, I've got a couple of shout outs that
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I need to give because the people have messaged me and made sure I knew I had to give them
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their shout outs and y'all I will not let you down.
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My word is my bond.
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So let me start here though.
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Last episode or two episodes ago, I just said Jade because I didn't have a last name, but
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I got that last name and so I am gonna give another shout out.
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It's Miss Jade Bible and I thought that was kind of cool too.
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So hey Jade, I'm sorry, I just called you Jade.
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You are Jade Bible and I thank you so very much for joining my Patreon and then all
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the way from Oregon.
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I've got Miss Sandra Oliver.
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Hey girl, how are you?
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I'm so excited to see the states where people listen.
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I think that's one of the coolest things and Miss Sandra, thank you so much.
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I really appreciate you joining and being a member of my Patreon.
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Then Missouri was freaking in the house because Miss Kathy Ray Brown, hey Miss Kathy, I got
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you.
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I saw you and I said I gotta give her that shout out and you're right here on my notebook.
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Miss Kathy, how are you and you have someone else?
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Now I don't know if Sullivan is near Grand B, I think that's how you say it, Missouri, but
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Miss Amy Garner, hey Amy, hey there.
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I got both of y'all, y'all friends, y'all know each other?
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But thank you all so much for listening, so glad to have you and then last but certainly
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not least I have Mr. Douglas Birchum and he wanted to make sure everybody knew he is
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actually friends with Jody Plotje and I think that's kind of cool right because y'all
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got to hear Jody talking a past episode and he was so cute, he was telling me about his
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daddy and how he said that his dad has heard every slaughter of the word Birchum known to
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sweet Jesus and I said, dude, let me tell you something, my name is Jennings and everyone
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calls me Jenkins or something else.
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So you know, I feel that on every level.
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So to Jade, Sandra, Amy, Kathy and Mr. Douglas, thank you all so, so very much your support
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means the world and without you, I really couldn't do the podcasting because your support is
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what makes the difference for me.
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So welcome to the team and let's dive into this part two of this Douglas Perry episode
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and something else too, don't forget, I'm usually really active on Facebook but don't
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forget that Patriot now has a free level that you can join and you don't get everything
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obviously but you can get more than the average bear I guess would if you don't follow
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anything so go in there and join that free level and you can see some of my photos and things
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that I post if you want to be able to see extra as you got to join and you can pick your
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level and it's whatever you can do it this time.
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So thank you all so much but we're going to pick back up in Spokane, Washington where three
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sex workers were killed in the late or the early 90s 1990s and the suspect would eventually
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be identified as Mr. Douglas Perry and the murdered women just as a recap or 26 year
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old Yolanda Sap, 34 year old Nikki Lowe and 38 year old Kathy Brisbo.
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And I had mentioned last episode two that a prostitute, another one had come forward and
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mentioned that she was really freaked out by this experience and that Douglas actually
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drove by and was ID by that woman as she literally made the report so hey that was some good
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luck there.
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And also if you remember ATF had confiscated a bunch of weapons from him which he was not
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supposed to be in possession of and he had a history of misbehavior at best and I covered
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that in the last episode.
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So hey if you didn't listen to the last one go listen before you you finished forward on
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this one.
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But unfortunately being weird does not constitute an arrest.
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Thank God right I'd be arrested but being weird can't get you arrested.
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We have to have hard evidence y'all but the 90s they just weren't up for the forensic challenge
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in the 90s.
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We have the advancements that we have today but lucky for us science matured as the years
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went on.
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So obviously an investigation was going to be launched and very quickly the Spokane Police
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Department and the Spokane County Sheriff's Office came to believe that these were going
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to be serial murders.
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Why serial?
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Okay why did they just think this is going to be a serial murder and not just someone that
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was out there or multiple people out there that were killing these prostitutes and just
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dumping them after they were using them.
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So the answer was because the modus operandi the mo right was just too similar the women
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all live similar lives in the sex industry.
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The perpetrators consistent use of a similar you know small caliber firearm in the killings
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was something you couldn't overlook and then the location where all of the bodies were
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dropped it was just too coincidental and I don't believe in coincidences in either do law
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enforcement.
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So that's why they believe this to be a serial killer and not multiple people.
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So the department conducted a joint investigation which is really cool because that means you
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have more multiple resources and a lot of people attacking the same case just from their own
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jurisdiction or agency.
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Now remember I've said this like a billion times the same 20% of the population is committing
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100% of the crimes and joining efforts is imperative to large scale crime solving.
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I'm a big proponent of that.
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I don't think that we need to have these ego trips where no this is my investigation.
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No if the goal is to solve it let's solve it right let's put all our heads together and
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criminals often commit crimes in more than one jurisdiction.
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So joint investigations would reflect that situation and we have to work together to connect
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the dots if not it's like literally a connect the dots worksheet where we have the dots
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everywhere but if we don't connect them then we can't see the full scope of what's going
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on with the person that's committing the crimes.
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And so these joint operations allow for the collection of evidence in each of the jurisdictions
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involved and it helps them each to build their cases respectively throughout their agencies.
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Now around the same time other murderers were making their mark on the area as well and
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one of which was Robert Yates which everyone knows is the Green River Killer and for a brief
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time he was all over their radar but evidence just simply didn't support him as the killer.
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They looked I even looked at a report a science it was like a forensic report where they had
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compared like calibers of weapons and M.O. and all of that and it just while there could
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have been some slight similarity there it literally was just not enough to make a direct
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connection and say yes lamb thank you ma'am this was him and good thing they didn't do
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that because they would have been wrong.
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But eventually he would be abandoned as someone that they thought should be held responsible
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for these murders and they kept looking but shortly thereafter this investigation went
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cold as ice I mean nothing no one was calling in tips no other bodies appeared and no other
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bodies appeared with the same calling card at least as how these women had been murdered
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and the leads simply dried up you know we have to have these leads and you never know how
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small the little bit of information that you give can matter matter fact I didn't plan
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on saying this but I'm going to you real quick if you all follow my Facebook you should have
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seen that picture of the back of that truck with the blood dripping down it right and
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I made a joke about hey is it murder or is it deer season okay obviously it's deer season
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in South Louisiana and other places too right but you know it was just kind of me joking
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well I didn't take a picture of the full truck because it turns out I actually I actually
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teach the person driving it I didn't know that at the time but then he stuck his head out
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the window was waving I was like oh my god hey so buddy if you're listening you know who
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you are hey buddy all right so what was cool about it though was a little while later
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after I had posted that on Facebook a gentleman that listen said oh yeah I saw that same
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truck driving down range and he mentioned this sticker that's on the back window of that
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truck and mind you I had not put a picture of that back window so I know that he saw
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the exact same truck I did and then he added plus he drives like an idiot not cracked up
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laughing because now I tell your mama but you know that small little tip what if I was looking
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for that truck and I didn't know anything about it and then someone else was able to say
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yeah I saw that truck too with that exact same sticker with the blood and it was driving
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down you know range avenue at this X amount of time then we get a timeline and that small
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little bit of information we can go to cameras and we can go looking for that truck and
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can try to track it down but you know when people aren't calling in anything when prostitutes
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aren't saying anything else that are working those streets and we have nothing in the murder
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stop why did they stop you know where did this person go and if they stopped then what
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was their true motive was that they directly hated those three women or you know what
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is it like why give me the why right so while Douglass Perry looked like a great suspect
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the link from him to the women was circumstantial at best and no prosecutor would touch that
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case at that level with a 10 foot pole I mean considering all you need is and people I think
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the public misses this sometimes considering all you need is reasonable doubt in a case
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for someone to walk or just a little bit beyond reasonable doubt for someone to walk on
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something hashtag case Anthony hashtag oj Simpson you know I'm saying like considering that's
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all you need no prosecutor is going to want to take on that case put forth all that work
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and only have circumstantial evidence to point to maybe they did it we needed more okay
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and also don't forget that that pesky fifth amendment right and that we can't have double
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jeopardy and you know if we try him based on just this this the circumstantial evidence and
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the case isn't solid and then he's acquitted and he walks it's done and then the women
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don't get justice a killer walks free and you know that's ridiculous it's a waste of resources
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and time so while we want immediate response and we want something done now right now
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it's in the best interest of everybody that we build a solid case before we take it to
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trial so prosecutors want a strong case so the chance of that doubt is limited in an example
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real quick I can give you just locally but a lot of people that listen or local is the
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direct todley serial killer case and baton ruse which I am going to cover and I know people
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have asked me to cover it I'm absolutely going to do it but some of the victims on the
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formal charges when there's a lead was was charged some of the victims their names were
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actually not on that indictment or on those charges and I know that like had to be a punch
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to the gut to those families but the reasoning makes sense some of the cases against some
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of the victims were much weaker than the other victims and this would matter tactically
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because the conviction is the most important outcome and I know I mean I don't know I
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wasn't there but I bet a million dollars which I don't have to give you but I bet you
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that prosecutor went over this with the families and explained to them with grace but if
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we put her name on this she could be the link of reasonable doubt that makes him walk on
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it so do we want the conviction or do we want the name on the paper and the families agreed
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we don't care we just want him locked up and guess what it worked he was convicted he
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was put on death row you know sorry spoil alert if you don't know the case but it's kind
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of like M&M said the rapper you know got a sing for you at least like once in a while but
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you only get one shot do not miss your chance to blow this opportunity comes once in a lifetime
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you know right you only get one shot and so if you you don't want to waste it you want
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to make sure that's good and that it's solid whenever you go forward in front of a jury
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I mean what do you want for me all I podcast I sing now I'm rapping I ain't no one trick
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pony okay all I do is wake up and piss excellence I guess I don't know I'm just kidding all
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right but any who in the mid 90s the investigations and those murders were cold and in order
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to bring forward that strong prosecutor prosecutorial case there was gun need to be more
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added it just had to be and because they were waiting and trying to get more evidence
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five more years would pass and unlike the poor victims in this case science would continue
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to grow and evolve and mature and it turns out improvements in what is known as DNA2 analysis
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would become available now I'm going to assume you know absolutely nothing about DNA real quick
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you probably know this but I'll just throw it out there in case you don't but DNA is basically
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the code if you want to think about it's like the instruction manual for making you know
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all the proteins that form our bodies right and so DNA testing could be done back in the
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90s but this DNA2 allowed for more now total disclaimer y'all I am not a forensic scientist
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I'm not I won't ever be not bright enough I guess storytelling is my game okay but I know
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people that are forensic scientists and I know for a fact that they are the most intelligent
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people and shout out to everyone who works at the crime labs because y'all are the real
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MVPs okay however in my attempt to explain as much as possible to my listeners I feel
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like I owe it to you I did my best to derive a simple explanation as this was way too complex
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for the average Joe like myself but hey I tried so we're on the same level and if I get
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it wrong y'all can chew me out in the comments but from what I gathered DNA2 would allow
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for like damaged DNA or DNA that needed to be replicated and then amplified it allowed
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for that to be achieved through this new testing method so let's say that you had just a poor
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sample and you needed to make it bigger so that you could do more testing you could amplify
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it or you could you could duplicate I guess I don't know that that's the right word but
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the DNA2 level made that possible all right so realizing that this was achievable law
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enforcement then decided to review all of the evidence of the murders and in 2008 they
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submitted several items of evidence in for this new DNA testing procedure and that turned
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out to be a good move because a forensic scientist was able to develop a male DNA profile from
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blood and that blood was found underneath one of miss brisbo's fingernails so we know for
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fact that this was not her DNA but it was underneath her fingernails and if you know anything about
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trying to save your own life it's that you scratch claw bite do whatever you can do to get away
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from the person attacking you so it's pretty damning that it's under her fingernails this
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was awesome right but now you have to identify that said person that said male DNA who owns
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it right so it's kind of like you find a wallet in a parking lot that's awesome it's got
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all the money and it's got all the credit cards it's got everything but who the hell does
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it belong to now you got to figure that out and you got multiple people with the same name
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and you got a lot of people that are on you know every platform that you might reach out to
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try to find them so now we have who it is in terms of DNA but we don't have who it is in terms
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of an ID or a name and this was when the profile was entered into what's known as codis which
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was in 2009 the combined DNA index system and as look what have it there was no immediate hit so
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it's like damn right we got way more than we had but now we can't ID the person pretty frustrating
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so I've been to our local state police crime lab on a few occasions and I even was a guest speaker
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there at one of their conferences recently but I remember seeing the code of system and the woman
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that was touring me when I went she mentioned that you know codis is not like in the movies or like in
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you know a 30 minute episode of forensic files or something it's not like they just maybe put it
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in and then ding here's the person that it belongs to she said that it's a very slow process where
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it can take hours or even days for a full scan to complete think about it how many people have
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their DNA in that system I mean they've got state employees might my DNAs and you know taken when I
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worked in the prison systems and all that so state employees DNA are in there the criminals are all in
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there and I know that as of April of 2021 the 20 millionth DNA profile was contributed to the
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national DNA database in that code is software so we've got 20 million people's DNA that has to be
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compared you can see why it's kind of a bigger task than the movies make it out to be right so basically
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what codis does is it links an unknown DNA left during the commission of a crime to offenders who are
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legally required to provide samples into the database now why why would we make people put their DNA
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into the database because the same 20% of the population commits 100% of the crimes it makes sense to
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get their DNA right so the FBI introduced this database in 1998 and the program just for your
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shits and giggles of your own jeopardy that program began with only nine states actually using it
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and then it's expanded now to all 50 and it's used to share those DNA profiles across all 50 states
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including our federal law enforcement agencies and the Department of Defense it is a valuable tool
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but why would all of these agencies need everybody's DNA again because the criminals are traveling
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but they're still being criminals they're doing things all over poor all you know Ella goody that I
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did the the episode on a few a few episodes back you know I feel like DNA should have solved this
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once we find her body unfortunately it's been so long now that her body is probably decomposed but
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you know that fool that we think did it I think did it was found in another state with her vehicle
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people don't stop being criminals just because they go across a jurisdictional line like give me a break
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right so through this amendment an expansion of the DNA identification act that was in 1994
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codis continues to help public forensic laboratories link crime scene evidence to other cases
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or other persons already convicted or arrested for specific crimes and that expansion has broadened
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codis and it's helping criminal investigations lead to more prosecutions across the nation and I know
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locally if you're listening you know where I'm from we recently got one of the first what's called
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rapid DNA systems installed in our parish jail and y'all the internet went wild you know people were
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all open arms oh they're gonna take our DNA and use it against us and all this bullshit and I'm
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like no bro we're not gonna take your day your DNA if it's not a qualifying offense do your research
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we're not gonna take your DNA because you're on a stop sign you know I'm saying like don't rob murder
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rape or kill and you're probably good so simmer down and what you're gonna find is that over the next
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year we are gonna solve more crimes than you're in your in your wildest dreams in our local area
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because that DNA is gonna link them I'm telling you just watch it happen you can call me a psychic in
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a year whenever I come back with the with the data for you all right so moving forward
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eventually a hit would be made but it would take a few years but strangely this is where shit gets
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weird when they got the hit of the DNA it came back as a woman how if it's male DNA that was
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found under the fingernails and then they finally get a hit how is it coming back to a woman all right
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well mistakes can be made of course and stranger things have happened I mean computer entry could have
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been mislabeled or something along those lines but this was DNA and DNA doesn't lie so how in the
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actual hell is a male DNA hitting in the system but it's a female and police had the same question right
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well remember how Perry had been Douglas Perry had been taken into custody by the ATF for those
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weapons charges that I had mentioned in those violations well in November of 2012 the county
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sheriff's detective named James dressback and Spokane police detective Mark Burbridge arranged a
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meeting to go see Perry he was being held as a federal inmate at the Spokane County jail to try
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you know they wanted to go try and sort this out and say okay we got to figure out what's going on
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here thing is when Perry came into the room it was quite obvious that this was someone wanting to
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portray themselves as a female and absolutely but fucking ugly wanted that if I'm just going to be
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honest but presenting that way no less even the inmate ID showed as female but it was a man you could
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tell all right so in quarring minds want to know what's up with that right like what what is going on
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here well check this out remember when the original officer pulled Perry over when the prostitute
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pointed him out during the complaint he drove by and she goes that's him right there that's the
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weirdo with the mannequins and all the weird stuff in his house and then he went and he searched Perry's
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vehicle but all he found was like some surgery literature and other items that were random in the car
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well guess what that surgery paperwork was about a friggin sex change turns out between that pullover
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and the new DNA2 developments old Douglas in the year 2000 underwent gender reassignment surgery
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in Thailand and became Donna Perry it's times like this y'all that I think I actually might be turning
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into my grandmother because I'm gonna echo her sentiments because she always says to me I'm getting
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too old for this shit and I think I am too is this really the world that we're living in like really
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but I guess it is so police are tracking down Douglas who sperm was at the scene and end up with a
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Donna over here who now says he's a woman just because he cut off his pecker but who likely raped and
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murdered three women with sed-missing pecker years ago okay Jesus so turns out our police had
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the right guy but he was now a she all righty them so here they are now with Dickless Douglas and
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they were armed with a search warrant for his DNA now if you think I'm being disrespectful disrespectful
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of someone who went through a sex change well you're damn right I'm absolutely being disrespectful
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disrespectful he showed no respect for his victims when he dumped them like trash he showed no
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regard for their lives when he made them suffer he showed no regard for them when he dumped them
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and posed them and humiliated them so I don't give a damn what trash you know what trash can your
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pecker resides in you're just a murderer with a fake vagina so get the fuck out of my face that's
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how I feel about this it infuriates me infuriates me because wait till you get this explanation of
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of why he did what he did so as you can imagine Douglas fain's confusion as to why the detectives were
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there and at the outset of the interview the detectives told him that they were working in old case
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and they wanted to see if Perry could help them and needed to first advise him of his rights so
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that's sweet right I mean Yolanda Nikki and Kathy they had their rights just taken from them with no
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prior warnings issued but the police did their job and they read him his rights you have the right
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to remain silent anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law you have
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the rights when attorney if you cannot afford one will be provided for you do understand your rights
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and upon the advising of his rights Perry said and this is a direct quote I should probably have
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an attorney here if you're gonna question me about something well Yolanda Nikki and Kathy should
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have a bodyguard if you're gonna go try to kill him they didn't get that but detective dress back
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who had been reading the rights from a card that he had pointed out to Perry that he had noted her
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or his we have you want to refer to him on the card and then Perry signed the card detective dress
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back then said okay we have another order of business we have to take care of today and he told Perry
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that he had a search warrant to obtain his DNA sample and when Perry asked in conjunction with what
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the detective answered that it was in conjunction with some old cases that they were investigating
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well when Perry asked what the detectives meant by old cases this is the following exchange that
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was had detective dress back said well I want to make sure that you want to talk to me about this okay
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and Perry said well I think I have I should have a lawyer here if you're gonna take the DNA in all of
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this and that's when Burbridge had to kind of school him a little bit and said your lawyer doesn't get
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to be here while we serve the search warrant because guys a lawyer can't override a search warrant
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the judge signed off on it you're taking the DNA and to me it was really interesting that Dickless
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Douglas wants to know more about you know the information they're trying to get but in the same
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breath doesn't want to talk and wants a lawyer and he also isn't very empathetic about denying anything
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so Perry what would ask the detectives why they wanted his DNA and detective Burbridge responded
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we have a search warrant for first degree murder and we believe that you have information about that
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about that murder and Perry started asking additional questions and detective Burbridge told him again
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you wanted a lawyer so I can't talk to you if you want to talk to us then and then Perry cut its
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cuts him off and says yeah I need a lawyer for something like this and Burbridge then says well then
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you need to tell me that so Perry repeated it yeah I think I better have a lawyer this is crazy
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Perry was provided with the search warrant but said he couldn't read it without his glasses so
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detective dress back read it to him he then instructed him how to swab the inside of his cheek to provide
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the samples and whenever Perry handed those swabs back to the detective Perry said am I being accused
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of murder or something and detective dress back responded that he was the prime suspect in multiple
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murders so I feel like the police were very open with why they were there and what they were doing
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and after Perry stated that he didn't understand what was going on the following exchange occurred
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and I pulled this from a an appeal document that I found
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Perry stated that he didn't understand what was going on and then detective Burbridge said again
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Donna we can't talk to you you've asked for a lawyer unless you tell us you want to sit down and talk
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so this is one of those typical things where I know my rights and I want a lawyer but then you want
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to talk about it well you can't have it both ways either you want to talk you want to have a lawyer
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and you want to shut up pick one so dress back said and you do understand that the rights of you
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having an attorney and your right to remain silent those are your rights all they do is restrict me
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they don't restrict you in any way you have the right to talk and you have the right not to talk okay
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so I'm obviously going to honor your right to an attorney at this time which is why we're not
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freely discussing the whole thing with you but it's your right he then said he was going to tape
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up the box with the DNA samples and he'd be back with a copy of a return for Perry and then the
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detectives left the room for about five minutes well when they came back they gave him a copy of
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the search warrant and Perry told the detectives tell me what's going on I don't understand a thing
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I need a lawyer or someone to explain what's actually going on the detectives gave a brief
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description of the crimes and the code is hit that led them to him so then Perry asked additional
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questions and expressed that he was quote unquote paranoid and in a total panic mode and had a million
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questions now detective dress back responded well I have about a thousand so you've gotten more than me
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and like I said before it's your right if you want at any time to talk to me but you have the right
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to choose not to but until that happens I'm not too terribly comfortable asking you anything
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about it to clarify things so that's where we're at do you have any questions for me and Perry said
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what are the names of the people now real quick y'all if you didn't kill anybody why would their names matter
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just curious like what is that going to change anything if you know their names is that
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going to help you out in any way why why why aren't you freaking screaming from the rooftops
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I didn't kill anybody what are you talking about no what are their names
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right so Burbage says I'm not comfortable going down that road not yet and that's when Perry expressed
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again how upset he was about being a suspect the detective said they were going to give him time to
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finish the soda that they had brought him and then they'd be back and they were going to take him
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back into the jail so detective dress back returned roughly six minutes later and gave Perry his
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business card and told him to let him know if she or he whatever decided that he wanted to talk
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and Perry reiterated how upset he was including to ask for the detectives pistol and one round so
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that he could quote unquote finish it but then said well let's talk let's sit down and talk I need
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to work this out in my head so in essence he wanted to he wanted to talk he said he wanted a lawyer
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but he wanted to talk and this would be what we call a stressed out worried she man at this point
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all right so detective burbridge entered the room and detective dress back said that before they
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could talk he needed to reread the rights to him he reread the rights and asked if he understood
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them and Perry said yes all right detectives did their job right they followed the law to a T
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and now old boy wants to talk so they asked if he wanted to answer any of the questions and Perry said
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I'll try to answer your questions and the detective needed the signature on the advice of the rights
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card and Perry then signed it and during the questioning that followed Perry told the detectives
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I did pick up some prostitutes yes but I always let them out and they were alive and well when I let
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them out so detective burbridge suggested that something made Perry stop killing something had to make
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these people stop being killed and this is the following exchange that occurred and again these are
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direct quotes from some paperwork I'll pull remember also there was a total denial of any responsibility
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before this detective burbridge says here here's the real thing the question is to me people that
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kill people multiple people over periods of time they generally keep going once it starts
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and Perry says yeah and then burbridge said so the question to me is you know as a law enforcement
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that studied this in depth and Perry says uh-huh per per uh burbridge says what made Donna stop
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so then I ask myself and then Perry interrupts him and this is what he says
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Douglas didn't stop Donna stopped it the gender change operation
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at that point I'm like what in the Bruce general Olympics is going on here so now he's saying he did
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kill I guess when he was going by Douglas but Donna has no responsibility
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and so you know burbridge comes back do you think that's what stopped it
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and Perry says I have yeah I'm convinced of it dress back says I hadn't thought of that that's
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that's a good question and burbridge says well here's another another one I'm wondering too is
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where is she because dress back says there's no more testosterone to fuel the anger right
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and shortly thereafter as the detectives continue to question Perry if she had committed the murder
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she says I'm not going to admit I killed anybody I didn't Donna has killed nobody
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and burbridge comes back and says so Doug did and Perry says I don't know if Doug did or not
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it's 20 years ago and I have no idea whether he did or didn't
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so while Perry denied many times in the remainder of the interview that Doug had murdered
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any of the victims she later repeated that she quote got rid of violence with the sex change
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operation so as you can see there's a lot going on turn this exchange from denials to talking
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in the third person to acting as if you're someone else other than who you were 20 years ago
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like literally implying that it's not the same person so naturally this raised a lot of eyebrows
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and it seemed as though maybe you know did he have a sex change to not take responsibility for
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his actions of murdering three innocent women and others thought no he's just a pervert and a sexual
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freak but you know I found a criminologist I was reading some articles and things who made a
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pretty compelling argument that the killings were motivated by jealousy because Douglass wanted to
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be a woman himself and that sounds silly off the top but if you think about it he did claim that he
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had transitioned into being a female to stop the male persona from being violent so I can get
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on board with that but not in an honorable way as Perry seems to try and spin it you know I could
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see that the argument could be made that he wasn't you know he wouldn't be as jealous of the
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prostitutes if he thought in his mind that he had achieved their sexuality I know this is getting kind
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of weird but I mean I could understand the argument but this is still irrelevant to the situation
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it's like we as a society are supposed to somehow just understand his personal problem as though
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it was one society needed to come to terms with no partner that's not how this is going to go
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whatever your personal problems are they're just that they're personal they're yours and no woman
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alive should have paid the price because you wanted to play dress up and be an ugly man with long hair
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you know what I'm saying detective dress back who interviewed Perry also made the connections
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that Perry was acting I mean was actually dating his roommate Claire Ann remember her she was the one
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that the detectives were wanting to interview but she was found to be awarded the state or of a
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of a caretaker and then she ended up dying well he made the connection detective did that Perry was
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actually dating the roommate Claire Ann before his sex change operation and she too was a sex worker
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who also suffered with a cocaine addiction and her being arrested played a role in motivation
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and that the detective felt the timing of the murders was a key here this was his direct quote
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it was interesting that Claire Ann was booked into jail on the night that two of these women were
405
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:20,240
killed now she's back in jail again and that makes Doug Perry mad and then he finds somebody to take
406
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:26,400
it out on and the first people he's gonna look at are the people that maybe he thinks are standing
407
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:33,360
in his way it seems to me pretty obvious that the sex change was the end goal of Perry the whole time
408
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:39,040
I don't think that that was to get out of any responsibility I think he wanted the sex change
409
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:46,880
one criminologist stated that him procuring sex workers having sex with them and then discarding of
410
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:55,120
the bodies and showing just this reverent irreverence that he had towards them was all part of the master
411
00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:02,160
plan and I totally agree with that with that statement but also that criminologist brought up Perry's
412
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:08,400
childhood as a possible motivator in these crimes which there are claims that he was you know
413
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,640
oppressed by hyper masculinity and sexual harassment from his father I don't know about that
414
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:20,800
that was just an argument made by that criminologist and so he says he needed to perfect he needed
415
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:27,120
to become he needed to get away from the little boy that was supposedly raped by his father
416
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,920
and become a woman who could actually provide sex to other men that was the game plan
417
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:38,560
in Perry's mind Perry was killing the thing that he hated and then trying to become the perfection
418
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:44,880
of it he added that was that criminologist standpoint I don't know what do you think I should tell
419
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:54,160
me what do you think I don't know kind of seems like a cop out to me knowing full well that he wouldn't
420
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,520
be approved and knowing that he would have to go out of the country to get the surgery it probably
421
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,800
bolstered his hatred towards women because they were born with this they didn't have to go get all the
422
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:10,480
work done that he had to go through and so he had this building boiling over anger towards these women
423
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:18,960
so in essence the argument is made that Perry was denied his real sexuality while regular women
424
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:31,200
were not well he didn't have to have a period so I take offense to that he didn't have stomach
425
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,320
cramps he didn't have to give birth he didn't have to do a lot of the things that women these days do
426
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,040
he wanted to dress up he didn't want to really go through the motions I don't buy that and if you
427
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:46,960
don't like what I'm telling you that's okay it's America you can disagree with me but what a joke
428
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:55,120
what an absolute just joke of a human being you know and again you can't make a personal problem
429
00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:00,480
that you have a social one society doesn't need to pay for your problems that you're having and
430
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:07,760
if we do go along with that justification or ideology as acceptable well then school shootings and genocide
431
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:14,400
and racism and all of the above would be acceptable under that logic right because I don't like you
432
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:19,520
because of my problem so I'm gonna go hurt you because that's basically what happened here no thanks
433
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:30,000
no thank you right so I appreciate the why but I don't appreciate what was done to innocent women
434
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:38,240
coming to terms with his sexuality and anger does not absolve him of the responsibility of killing
435
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:46,320
other women because of jealousy it's like freaking fatal attraction the law does not care either
436
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:53,280
about your sexuality it cares about you not hurting others and that said are you curious about what
437
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,240
we do with people who have undergone like sex change surgery after conviction because I thought I'd
438
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:05,040
touch on that real quick well when I was at Angola um if men came in with breast implants but they still
439
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:12,880
had a penis they still went to male prison because you're a male you just paid to have fake boobs put
440
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:21,760
in right you're still a man but if the undercarriage has had work that now changes things
441
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:33,040
Douglas Perry was housed in a women's facility this becomes interesting too okay and again y'all I'm
442
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:39,440
not being hateful I'm just trying to show the disparity here between the the the care and the
443
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:46,480
and the thought process that we put into these criminals in their bad childhoods but none to those
444
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:57,600
victims because they were sex workers no give me a break it becomes interesting because when Perry
445
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:04,400
was being held in that women's facility a few things came to light right about how damaged he was
446
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:11,280
in 2013 law enforcement learned that Perry had been making incriminating statements to a fellow
447
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:22,720
inmate his his celly named Chero Everson and she uh Chero shared a cell with Perry at the federal
448
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:29,680
prison in Texas and Detective dress back in Burbridge traveled to Texas in June of 2013 to interview her
449
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,520
and according to Miss Everson although she and Perry were only incarcerated together for about a
450
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:44,400
month and a half Perry came to trust her and even started asking about the two of them getting married
451
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:53,520
getting married so so I guess now he's a lesbian like I cannot even keep up with this dude's
452
00:43:53,520 --> 00:44:01,600
psyche you wanted to become a woman so you could have sex with other women what in the world
453
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,000
is happening here
454
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:11,920
Miss Everson also said that Perry told her he had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and was a sociopath
455
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:18,640
and that guns and ammunition were his hobbies and that he had made money becoming a contract killer
456
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:29,440
okay so Perry then also told Miss Everson that she had killed prostitutes at first saying that
457
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,480
that that he had killed nine prostitutes but then later would say it was more like between 20 and 30
458
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:43,840
and then had a discussion with Chero Everson that the prostitutes were seen as and this is a direct
459
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,840
quote nothing they were nobody's they were pond scum
460
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:59,120
also according to Miss Everson was that Perry said he was jealous of the prostitutes because they
461
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:09,120
could have families and she even testified at Perry's trial and said that um Perry told her
462
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,320
that he became a woman to disguise himself and to get the heat off of him because nobody would look
463
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:21,760
for an elderly lady with a mental condition I don't feel sorry for him y'all and there is an
464
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,200
absolute deflection of guilt between the two identities and minimization of responsibility
465
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,840
for sure if you're paying attention to what's going on here and I would argue that the sex change
466
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,640
didn't stop the criminality either because he already had completed the sex change when he got in
467
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:42,640
trouble for the weapons charges so maybe the sexual component was reduced but criminality did not
468
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:48,320
stop altogether that was not the only motivating factor behind what he did the massive reduction in
469
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:55,680
testosterone alone would you know chill out a man I mean we know that because we treat male sex
470
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,160
offenders with depopravera in some instances they get female hormones in essence you know chemical
471
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:04,160
castration and some states even allow what's called an orcaectomy if you've ever heard of that which is
472
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:10,720
basically physical castration but it still doesn't undo the damage and death and abuse that these
473
00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:18,320
these men do to their victims and the same here goes with Douglas or Donna I mean you know write
474
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,800
something ugly and crumble it up on a piece of paper right and then tell that paper you're sorry
475
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:31,040
and then undo that paper did it undamaged the paper no so regardless of what crazy justification he
476
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:38,320
came up with in his mind penis or not he's a dangerous sexual deviant murderer he took a personal
477
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:45,600
problem and he made it a social problem period so ultimately though that DNA sample that was obtained
478
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:51,200
from Helm was analyzed by the Washington State Patrol crime lab and was compared with other evidence
479
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:57,200
obtained from the murder victims and their surroundings and guess what after a complete analysis was
480
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:03,760
done it was proved to be definitive as a match to the blood found under miss brisbo's fingernail
481
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:10,080
it was a match a weaker one but a match to that floral blanket found near miss yolanda saps body
482
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:18,800
and it was also a match to a vaginal swab of miss brisbo he was in on or around every one of those
483
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:26,720
women that were murdered so news flash dickless Doug you are caught no matter what mental disorder
484
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:31,840
you have going on in your head it was you committing the crimes you had the same blood do that
485
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:38,240
I mean when like when I was five I didn't have boobs y'all but I don't claim today that I have them
486
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:43,280
that it wasn't me who drew on the walls and spilled juice all over the kitchen the body is just
487
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:50,080
a little different but it's still me you are still Doug you are just missing your penis and changed
488
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:56,000
your name you should have you should have changed your name to like from Dougless to Dougless because
489
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:02,080
that's the only difference you're missing a piece you know I'm saying but going back to the ATF
490
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:07,200
investigation and that ultimate arrest I found some other information too during that search ATF
491
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:13,200
agent Lance Hart spoke with Perry and he described Perry as extremely knowledgeable about firearms
492
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:19,520
and very protective of the ones that were in his possession an agent aren't asked agent Hart asked
493
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:25,200
Doug how did you obtain these weapons how do you buy them and Perry said he at one time held a
494
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:33,840
federal firearms license but he lost it because they had found an unregistered machine gun in his
495
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:41,840
possession the dude doesn't follow the rules y'all and it was also then that Douglas added he was a
496
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:48,960
woman trapped in a man's body and made money by dressing up and engaging in prostitution this dude
497
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:59,360
is a problem then you flash forward to 2014 and the claims stated by Doug shifted a bit now he takes
498
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:04,400
the approach that somehow the Donna character he made up is morally superior to the Doug that he
499
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,800
once was and in an affidavit that I read he said direct quote Dougless didn't stop Donna stopped it
500
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:19,040
when he's talking to the police well if you had no idea back when your DNA was taken of what was happening
501
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:26,000
and you had no recollection of how you know of what Dougless did now that your Donna then how the hell do
502
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:34,240
you know that Donna is who stopped Doug and stopped Doug from what get out of here with that just
503
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:39,120
just get out of here get out of my face a one one crime expert that I was looking at some of his
504
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,160
reports and things written his name was Brian Frederick he said that he thinks that Douglas
505
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,400
Perry picked up the victims based on their looks because he felt like there was jealousy
506
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:54,480
and he said that I think he picked him up because they were attractive remember I told you these
507
00:49:54,480 --> 00:50:00,400
women were pretty women and that they were more attractive than Douglas would ever be even if he
508
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:07,440
became Donna and so he was mad and jealous because they were squandering their beauty by giving sex
509
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:14,160
to men who didn't necessarily have the purpose that he had and this guy says he was on a mission he
510
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:20,400
was mission oriented and he just was mad so he was killing the women and I couldn't say I don't disagree
511
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:31,440
Perry also told that roommate in prison that he would quote pick a target study them guess their
512
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:38,320
moves and what they were gonna do where they went and then he would execute them now they did ask
513
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,760
in court because I guess they wanted to verify that miss ever send the roommate cell mate wasn't being I
514
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:48,560
guess a I don't know what the word would be your homophobic or what it transphobic or whatever
515
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:54,320
they said why do you keep using male pronouns whenever you're describing Perry like why aren't you
516
00:50:54,320 --> 00:51:01,200
calling her a she and this was pretty important to me ever since said it was because Perry
517
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:07,600
told her that the reason for the sex change operation was to avoid detection and she said that every
518
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:14,480
interaction she ever had with Perry was as if he was a male he was not interacting with her as if
519
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:23,600
he was a female so then she went on to further say that Perry claimed to have killed the prostitutes
520
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:28,800
in a vehicle by a river and then kicked their bodies out of the vehicle and left them behind
521
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:37,440
and then also said that Perry was bragging and said that the police just didn't know really what they
522
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,640
were doing that Perry was able to dispose of evidence and got away with it and that law enforcement
523
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:47,120
had even unknowingly destroyed some of the firearms he used to commit other murders
524
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:55,360
then she also testified that she received nothing in exchange for her information or her
525
00:51:55,360 --> 00:52:01,600
testimony against Perry and that she eventually had asked the staff to move her away from Perry
526
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,920
because she was afraid of him and they honored that request and put her in a different unit
527
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:16,320
when the when the police went to Texas to bring Perry to Spokane for the trial Perry said to them
528
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:22,640
I'm never gonna get out of this instead of jail I hope they'll just send me to some eastern
529
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:30,480
state hospital I'm not violent now and that the plane ride would be quote unquote the last time
530
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:38,720
she would ever be outside of concrete walls well boo freaking who because when you killed the
531
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:43,760
three women that was the last time they were on this side of the dirt at least you get to eat
532
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,600
at least you get to talk to people at least if anybody wants to visit you they can
533
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,440
the other women didn't get that opportunity because you chose to snuff out their life because
534
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,920
you felt you were somehow superior to them and they didn't matter what the fact is they did
535
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:05,280
they mattered and as such the state charged Perry with three counts of premeditated first degree
536
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:11,200
murder with the aggravating circumstance that their murder was part of a common scheme or plan
537
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:17,840
involving one or more victims and at the conclusion of a trial that took several weeks the jury
538
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:24,160
did find Perry guilty is charged answering yes to special verdict forms asking if the murders
539
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:30,400
had been part of a common scheme or plan so the trial court sentenced Perry to three life sentences
540
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:37,440
to be served consecutively which means one after the other without the possibility of parole
541
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,720
or early release on top of that they also imposed a seven hundred and ten dollar fine in legal
542
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:48,960
financial obligations and a five hundred dollar fee for the crime victim assessment fee
543
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:56,480
as well as a one hundred dollar DNA collection fee and a one hundred and ten dollar criminal filing fee
544
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:03,040
so Donna or Douglas or Dickless or daughter or Daffy Duck or whatever the hell title you want to
545
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:10,560
give yourself you did it you did the crime and Justice Delayed is Justice denied so while it took
546
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:17,120
a while for there to be a trial twenty seven years to be exact justice in the lawful sense was finally
547
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:24,160
achieved and it was served and I told you this was a weird one there was no rhyme or reason just evil
548
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:34,080
in my opinion and this killer deserves to be behind bars if not executed so to me is preoccupation
549
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,840
with this genitals is really what got him where he is and it's weird to me it's like why do
550
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:48,400
men with the smallest dicks always have the biggest complex is you need to calm down push pop
551
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,980
(upbeat music)
552
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,380
(upbeat music)
553
00:54:54,380 --> 00:54:57,540
(dramatic music playing)
